Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Full range speakers in new Mustang GT 40?

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by Nolefinity, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. Nolefinity

    Nolefinity TDPRI Member

    98
    Apr 11, 2012
    Atlanta
    I just went to my local guitar center, and right inside the door was a stack of boxes of the 40 W. They did not have one opened, but I was able to look at the box close up.

    To my surprise and excitement, the first selling point was that it has two 6.5" "full-frequency range" speakers.

    One of my biggest dreams was that this small model would have full range speakers, like a Blackstar Core ID Beam ... for great quality playback of phones, MP3s, backing tracks, etc.

    Does everyone agree that I'm in luck?

    "Full-frequency range" = FRFR ?

    If so, sweet!!!!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
    latin_ink likes this.

  2. latin_ink

    latin_ink TDPRI Member

    Age:
    38
    4
    Apr 13, 2017
    Portugal
    That's great !! I was looking for the exact same feature. It appeared online for a while (thomann.de), as available at May 2nd. I do not remember the exact price, but it was a bit higher than the ID Core 40 (not bean).
     
    pondcaster likes this.

  3. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    They only had the GT100 when i bought mine today so glad you had a chance to see for yourself. I just hope they sound better then the one in mine. You may be wise to try one before you buy because a full range is likely to sound worse than mine did with the stock speaker. Try it first, i'm telling you. And if you do hit the menu button then scroll down to the EQ and select the bright cut one by hitting the button in the middle of the data wheel. If it does sound sterile and buzzy like the celestion in mine did that may help. But being full range i fear it will sound as bad or worse. Again...be sure to try it before you buy it. Or get it at GC for the return policy like i did.
     

  4. Georox

    Georox Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 30, 2014
    The tan house in AZ
    Give it a chance to break in.
     
    pondcaster likes this.

  5. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    trust me, no speaker breaks in to change near as much as this one would have to in order to make the amp sound decent. It's literally horrendous. Besides, like my old V2 mustang i'm using my EV12L with it that i prefer to anything else. But his stock one is just pathetic. I suppose it could be a exception and maybe sound decent once broken in, but i have yet to hear and other speaker i've had break in and change that much.
     

  6. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    I have never owned or used a Mustang so I tend to refrain from entering Mustang threads. But I do use modelers a lot, and have done so for a long time. IMO, full Range speakers cannot just be added to a modeler without additional speaker/cab/mic modelling updates as well. If the modeling options were not updated with the speaker change... that would be a ridiculous oversight. It suspect it would sound like a box of bumble bees (no offence intended to bumble bees :D).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
    pondcaster likes this.

  7. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    The fancy Line 6 amps also feature full range speaker arrays.

    i guess they figured out that they can get many different
    worlds in one box.

    for the guitar, it would only be a speaker emulation away to address the
    bee in a can syndrome. Solved by simple EQ parameters inside the box.

    I just can't see how a speaker designed for full range can sound as good as
    one specifically designed for straight guitar work.
     

  8. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    Line Six "modeling" also includes speaker/cab/mic simulations.... they always have back to the original bean in 1998-1999!

    When the modeling includes speaker/cab/mic simulation the speakers have to reproduce that tone accurately... just like a PA system, keyboard amp, or studio monitors. The speakers are not meant to impart their own color on the tone in this case.

    FULL RANGE: Works best with full featured modeling that includes speaker/cab/mic simulation.
    GUITAR SPEAKERS: Works best when the modeling is "preamp only"... which I believe (but do not know for certain) the original Mustang models are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017

  9. privatesalt

    privatesalt Tele-Meister

    116
    Jan 31, 2014
    Alabama
    To me FRFR means having a high frequency driver (like a titanium driver with horn or the tweeter type) and a low frequency driver (like a woofer) and a crossover. Now days the active (powered) FRFRs have internal processing (for multiband compressor, eq, limiter).

    So when you play music thru it, it sounds hifi. Cymbals sizzle, bass has thump. Basically play anything thru it... bass guitar, acoustic, drums, synth, keys, etc.

    The amp's cabinet is modeled and needs to run into FRFR imho. On the M3v2 for example the algorithms are tuned to sound correct thru the celestion speaker (not FRFR). You won't get crispy highs playing an acoustic guitar thru a celestion limited freq range speaker like you hear on an acoustic amp or full range PA with HF drivers.

    It is strange that the M3v2 models sound great out of the balanced outs into a FRFR pa system (if they were modeled for the celestion). The bal out must have a different range than the speaker out or some EQ being done.

    I'd be surprised if the GT 40 has real FRFR speakers.
     
    Jim Dep likes this.

  10. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    I think the point to be made here is this. when you design any guitar amp be it a tube amp or modeler, you design it around it's intended speaker. If you plug a marshall into a full range speaker it;s going to sound like crap because the circuit is designed with a guitar speaker/cab and the guy tweaking the circuit does so till whats coming out of that speaker sounds good. If he decided to use a full range system he's going to end up with a circuit that is nite and day different. Either amp design with the opposite speaker design it was built around and it will sound like crap. Same goes for modeling. The mustang series unlike something like a helix was designed to sound right thru a guitar speaker/cab. So the question is, did fender make changes to the modeling in the 40 that makes it different from the others. If not, i fear the 40 is going to sound as someone above said, like a box of bumblebees.
     
    codamedia likes this.

  11. musicalmartin

    musicalmartin Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    70
    Aug 8, 2007
    Norfolk UK
    i think we need to play them long and hard to get those speakers working before being too critical .Also different people hear different things .Are my ears perfect or for that matter are yours ?Worth bearing in mind before making snap judgements .My new Champion 40 sounds a lot better after my wife took the dogs out for the afternoon and I cranked it up for a few hours through a Gibson Midtown :for purely medicinal reasons of course.
     
    xafinity and cbh5150 like this.

  12. dobrojoe

    dobrojoe Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Age:
    72
    197
    Feb 11, 2017
    England
    I have a Line 6 amp with a woofer and tweeter (Spider Jam). It can handle guitar, bass, acoustic, vocals, keyboards etc because the system has been designed as HI-Fi. When you use a guitar through a guitar amp simulation, the appropriate frequency response is sent to the HI-FI system, just as it would if you put a modelling pedal into a full-range PS system. The GT series makes no claims about full-range and the 12" Celestion is definitely a guitar speaker. Don't know about the 40 GT but in a small cabinet like that, it would have to have some kind of porting system to handle the bottom end and a piezo tweeter, the high end to be considered full range. As I understand, it just has two small speakers - but I have just to see/hear one.
     

  13. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    They had the same engineering problem to solve with the previous generations of the Mustangs and they were able to navigate it without difficulty. I suspect they are capable of doing the same with the current generation.
     
    Jim Dep likes this.

  14. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    The previous gen all had regular guitar speakers far as i know.
     

  15. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    And they all had different frequency responses. I'm sure they considered that when developing their products.
     

  16. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    Thats within the same ballpark tho. You ca find tube amps of the same modle in 2x12 cabs, 3x10, you name it. We're talking guitar speaker vs stero type speaker. The difference is not just a little, it;s van vs sports car. The speaker in the Mi and the MIII are one sports car vs another. Look at guitar HEADS....they are used with every variation of GUITAR speakers. Never with a 2 or 3 way full range speaker. Try plugging a guitar amp into a stereo or PA speaker. Then we will no longer have anything to talk about. QA guitar amp's range of adjustment is well within the ability to use any guitar speaker setup, some will just sound better then others.
     

  17. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    It doesn't matter how different or similar the respective speakers are. Once you know the target applications, you can convolve them and make the additive/subtractive changes for the individual applications.

    It's naive to assume that they wouldn't make the appropriate changes if they ran it in to a full range speaker.
     

  18. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles

    at 6:08....


    [/QUOTE]
     
    Jim Dep and pdcorlis like this.

  19. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    LOL, you can always trust a salesman to be correct all the time! I'm sure he personally reviewed the DSP code of all three versions line by line before making that statement.
     

  20. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    I knew you'd say that and but i'm sure you'd come up with a reason why a black car isn't black even if i posted a pic of it. It's tough being wrong but even tougher to admit it. I'm done.
     
    xafinity likes this.

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.