Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Fret refinishing kit?????

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by guitarzan13, Feb 2, 2007.

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  1. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    I kinda look at it this way…. I don’t know how long ago someone found a way to stick frets on a board and stretch wire over ‘em and pluck a note…. But relatively shortly there after someone said, “This bugger is buzzin’ like a hornet’s nest, it needs a fret leveling.” And the search for a way to do it began….

    I’m sure somewhere along the time line someone took a piece of sheet metal and glued a piece of crocus cloth (glorified sandpaper) to it and drug it up and down a neck, rocking and tilting it to accommodate the radius. I also sure hundreds, if not thousands, of other methods were tried… and over time ONE basic procedure has emerged as the preeminent method of doing a fret leveling. As to why the TG has emerged, in previous times the inexpensive method of marketing the thing did not exist, and in over 45 years of drifting into guitar shops, I have NEVER seen anything even remotely similar. There is a reason.

    We have tried to share our experience as we have incorporated that technique. If y’all aren’t interested, that’s cool too. But, to suggest that I/We have an ulterior motive in steering some away from what is overwhelmingly apparent is an overt attempt to attract those with little knowledge of the process and geometry involved in a basic fret leveling, is quite contrary to Rob’s, mine, and other contributor’s participation in this forum. Perhaps a search of our other contributions might be in order.

    Thank goodness this is the good ‘ol USA, and everyone is perfectly free to try whatever they want, you can even ignore perfectly good advice.

    Ron Kirn
     

  2. jeffhigh

    jeffhigh Tele-Meister

    184
    Dec 1, 2003
    Australia
    I think it is pretty clear who to believe, someone who has just joined with the intention of promoting this kit, or some long term members who do fretwork all the time.
    I would not consider that using a short plate to dress my frets actually leveled them in relation to the other frets along the board, for that you need a long beam
     

  3. mgfretman

    mgfretman Banned

    18
    Feb 7, 2007
    New Jersey
    I can only hope that anyone reading this thread can see Ron and Rob are ignoring both comments made by myself and of Tasti-Twang's. And more likely than not other visitors who happen onto this forum with positive comments about the T-G kit will probably be ignored, too. Ron wants to sell his book, which is pretty understandable, and Rob wants to sell his services, which is also understandable. I and Tasti Twang have nothing to sell, and only want to inform the members of this forum of our own personal experiences. Ron's book is excellent, and I told him that privately (but he failed to mention that). I don't doubt that Rob is a very good guitar technician, even though a bit overly insecure and defensive. I would be too if I made my living doing fret jobs. I dress my own frets because I prefer doing my own work on my instruments. I don't want to make a big deal out of it (though it used to be) because it isn't anymore. Anyway, I've seen the crap work of all too many self proclaimed "pro's" all too often. Years ago, my close friend, a great and well known N.Y studio guitarist, introduced me to Jimmy D'aquisto, when the latter had his shop in Farmingdale, NY. Jimmy made three guitars for my friend back then, and I was overwhelmed by Jimmy's dedication to the art. In my opinion, no one has come along since his untimely death that can compare. I respect people like him, no question. I'm no newby to the guitar. I've been playing for fifty years, and have professional experience in every venue of the business, and taught jazz guitar for fifteen of them. The New York studios, Broadway shows, recording groups and night clubs are all too familiar to me. I've been there and done it. If I have somethiing to say about anything guitar, it's from many years of hard earned, hard paid dues.
    The self-proclaimed Guru's can lead the young one's easy enough, but it takes more than rhetoric and the use of buzz words and flash to convince me of their credibility. I mean no malice towards anyone here. I have only one motivaton, to be unequivocal in my defense of what I believe is true.
     

  4. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    ....
     

  5. magicguitar

    magicguitar Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    70
    Aug 23, 2006
    Fallon, Nevada
    Rob...
    Give me your snail mail and I'll send you my T-G kit. The fret leveler and the finishing kit for you to evaluate.
     

  6. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX

  7. lager86

    lager86 TDPRI Member

    26
    Jun 26, 2006
    Southeastern Pa.
    Both Rob and Ron are all over this forum giving out free advice to one and all !

    Rob has a website with tutorials and Ron has been widely known around these parts for giving tech tips to all whom care to peruse them, yet some feel that their reason for critique on this thread is that they feel threatened proffesionally :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Sorry, but the logic behind the thought process involved just does'nt add up for me.

    Just my humble opinion
     

  8. cheeseman

    cheeseman Tele-Meister

    this thread is amazing!

    i'm not sure why, but i feel personaly offended that someone would accuse such long standing members as rob of alterior motives; even violating board rules! my suggestion to those accusing rob and others of posting to make money, do a search on all their posts and see how much advice, encouragement, advice and support these guys have showered on the members here, and see if you can find a SINGLE instance of them trying sell something, for g*d sakes. i'm sorry, but i find it insulting and enfuriating and i'm pissed off. rob and others here spend hours of their time teaching and sharing experience THEY earned though years of work. i have asked questions and posed peoblems, and no one, and i mean NO ONE, has ever suggested i buy a service or part or tool for ANYTHING. rob is nothing if not overly generous with his knowledge and time, and the fact that anyone would question that, in my opinion, is ignorant and misinformed, and should be barred from the site.

    rob, you have my support and my respect, and i apologise for sticking my nose into this, but man, it sure made me angry!
     

  9. guitarzan13

    guitarzan13 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    52
    Jul 25, 2006
    LaGrange, GA
    My Apologies to Rob and Ron

    Guys,(Rob and Ron)
    I am sorry that this turned into an obvious personal attack on you two. I feel non-newbies in here know what this forum is about. It hurts me to know that some feel the need to insult others. You were personally insulted and I feel sad for that.... I am truly sorry that the thread took this turn. My deepest apologies to you both. And again, I thank you for all you do for this forum.....Chris
     

  10. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    Joe and Chris (and others) - thanx for your kind remarks.

    I think its totally fine that the mgfretman and Tasti-Twanger have such a zeal for the T-G product, and therefore their defensive reactions to my (and Ron's) concerns over both the tools and the process. I have no grudge or axe to grind over any of this stuff. Shortly, I'll have the T-G kit in my hands and will tell it as I see it - which surely may mean I might be eating crow ... :oops:
     

  11. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    I trust those, who’s comments have come back a tad on the heavy side will not let this experience dissuade them from further participation.

    Negativity is the genre of most internet forums, and I'm confident all will realize the TDPRI is quite different in that aspect. Disagreement is tolerated and encouraged, it is only by honestly considering alternative points of views does any discussion advance.

    I just put my thoughts out there and let 'em fall where they may, so anyway what fret leveling method gives the best tone?

    Ron Kirn
     

  12. Teletale

    Teletale Voluntarily Removed

    144
    Jan 11, 2007
    USA
    I'm not getting into arguments. But I have enjoyed this thread no end. It's interesting to listen and try to imagine the motivations and backgrounds behind the words. Thanks (Paul and Chris etc) for letting it run it's course.
    I do have a question about fret leveling (not crowning and polishing) which I will ask on another thread, perhaps you could all weigh in on it for me?

    -TT
     

  13. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX

  14. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    Nice review Rob.... You've said it all.

    Ron Kirn
     

  15. chickenpicker

    chickenpicker Friend of Leo's

    Jan 25, 2005
    UK
    Very informative, Rob.

    I think I'll stick to the traditional methods.
     

  16. guitarzan13

    guitarzan13 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    52
    Jul 25, 2006
    LaGrange, GA
    I feel that my question has been clearly answered..... Thanks guys!!
     

  17. axg20202

    axg20202 TDPRI Member

    89
    Aug 24, 2006
    London
    Nice one Rob. I actually bought one of the T-G kits out of curiosity. It remains unused since even with my limited fretting skills and experience (which is based on various people's advice, including yours, and reading as many books as I could get my hands on) it was obvious that this kit was not suitable for what I wanted to achieve, which was levelling and crowning frets with moderate amount of wear. I invested in some proper tools (I didn't have to spend a fortune) and I am delighted with my first attempt at a full level and crown. Even I can see that the T-G kit would have made a hash of it. To be honest, the only specialist tools I needed were a crowning file and a notched straight edge. Any other tools (e.g. I used a jack plane as my block) I had already. It was worth the minimal investment in tools and time to learn (I still have much to learn of course) and I'm glad I didn't try to take a short cut with such a kit.

    One unused T-G kit going cheap!

    Andy.
     

  18. rand z

    rand z Friend of Leo's

    Feb 19, 2004
    trumansburg, ny
    put me in with the crowd that values rob's and a lot of others valuable info and sharing it with me/us.

    its the great redeeming value of this great forum!!!

    and kudo's to rob and ron for sticking to their guns under heavy fire and then asking for the chance to evalulate the kit. keep an open mind... everyone.

    this IS a great forum.

    imho.


    rand z tropicalsoul.net
     

  19. photoweborama

    photoweborama Friend of Leo's

    Dec 16, 2003
    Sacramento, CA
    I've used this kit for some time, but I do it sort of a hybrid method. It works great, and I've actually made quite a bit of cash using this method. It is true you can't get an actual crown with it, but you can get pretty close when you understand how it works.

    The thing you have to remember with this kit is that you can't think of it in a conventional way. You have to open your mind up and not think of what it is doing as compared to the conventional way of doing it.

    What it does is level frets in conjunction with other frets, not the fret board. This way you end up taking less fret off, but getting a similar effect of the frets being leveled because in comparison to the 2 or three frets around a given fret, they are level to each other.

    For this to work, you need to have similar bow as when the strings are tensioned. Thats why they have the string lifter and tell you to do it under proper tension. That way the frets are leveled to each other as they would under real playing bow and tension. That is also why the sanding plate is not that long.

    The way it works is after you level the frets with the flat side of the plate, you then switch abrasives and run the ridged side of the plate across up and down the fretboard with almost no pressure at all. You just keep running it over and over again and it wears off the side edges of the fret, and round them out nicely. If you want them more round, you just do it longer.

    The way I do it is different than the instructions. I always tape the board.
    I remove the stings and use a straight edge and adjust the truss rod so I have the aprox. relief that I'll be setting the neck to after I string it up.

    I level the frets, then round them as per the instructions. I then use some 000 steel wool and polish the frets with it, then I use Brasso to bring the frets to a hard and super polished shine.

    I then remove the tape, oil the fretboard, string it up, and do a complete setup on it.

    Again, you have to be open minded when you use this it.

    I'll entertain questions about what I've written, but I won't reply to slamming, or heated arguments because of difference of opinions.
     

  20. photoweborama

    photoweborama Friend of Leo's

    Dec 16, 2003
    Sacramento, CA
    I might add that I'm not knocking Rob, or anyone else who does things the conventional way. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just that there are other ways to do thing that may work for others too. I'm not an expert, I just know what has been working for me.
     

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