Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Fender waxed paper capacitor's

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Wicked-T, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2011
    Lewes De.
    I have an open mind on the dielectric debate so getting some various kinds and doing my own A/B seem like a future project. The Tele p-ups are right in normal inductance range , but different from each other so I don t think its that. It certainly could be just coincidence w some other factor like just how the guitar sounds acoustically.
     

  2. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    27
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    That's exactly it. It's a range. That could easily be from 3Henries to 5Henries, or greater for a bridge pickup, as an example. That change will effect the roll off of the tone control bit. A 3H pickup will not muddy up as quickly as the higher inductance pickup, if you compared them with the same value tone cap.
     

  3. Grux

    Grux Tele-Holic

    Age:
    38
    710
    Jan 10, 2017
    Clarksville, TN
    So what's your opinion on "tone wood" Ron?
     

  4. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    I'm still waiting for someone to share exactly how one uses the concept "tone wood" when purchasing a guitar.

    "tonewood" is as ambiguous as cold, or hot . a completely useless word that has no other use than to foster an increase in the cost of a particular species of wood.

    rk
     
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  5. Geo

    Geo Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    68
    Mar 17, 2003
    Hendersonville, TN
    If I was Fender I would sell them. Folks that want them will buy somewhere no matter what.
    What they would hope is the buyer will buy some additional parts to get to the $50 free shipping.
     
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  6. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Start another thread so you don't hijack this one and let me know. I'll be happy to explain "tonewood" to you. It is absolutely a "real" think and critical to the sound of better guitars (cheap hardware and electronics can negate what the wood does).
     

  7. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    you start another thread, I'm sure a lot would like to know how to walk into the mega Guitar shop armed with a full knowledge of the non-existant grade, Tone Wood... and use that to secure a great sounding guitar... it would be helpful..

    rk
     

  8. BartS

    BartS Friend of Leo's

    Feb 18, 2013
    St. louis MO
    If there is tone wood there also must be tone partial board and toilet paper thin plywood because I have heard cheap built crud made out of stuff like that which sounds way better than anything that comes out of fenders custom shop. Not saying anything that comes out of fender custom shop is any good.

    I have worn out cheap plywood acoustics. I wouldn't want to play one professionally but sitting around the house and you can't stop playing them because of the tone.
     

  9. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Not gonna bait me with argumentative comments. You initially voiced an open interrogative, but the followup shows that your mind is already closed. Seems silly to me as the subject is well documented and there are scientific studies that have established how tonewoods and their use in specific parts of instruments affect sound.

    But if you choose not to believe 'em more power to ya'. I just get a bit of a laugh out of it. I assume you think a Martin D-28 and D-18...and Ovation Balladeer, and plywood Mitchell...sound identical?

    :lol:
     

  10. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    My mind is indeed closed, inasmuch as i work within the realm of real usage of the guitar..I don't give a ratz azz what is apparent on some analytical equipment unless it can be translated into "your" music while entertaining... But... I have never said that different woods cannot present variance, but in the vast majority of such, the differenced exists at a threshold below that of usability, on stage, in front of a crowd. As such, hehe, I love this... the wood doesn't matter... :D

    The "voice" the materials used to construct your guitar produce, are only a "fashion statement".. as long as the guitar functions as it's designed, and "you" can play it, no one else cares... It only matters to you as significantly as the color socks you chose for the day... no one cares about that either.

    My mind is also closed, unless the ability to take any suggestion that the mythological "tone wood" inference can be taken to a guitar shop to be used in acquiring a guitar with a specifically intended tone.'' as, . .

    Salesman "May I help you?",

    Customer, "Why yes, please show me your guitars made with superior "tone wood"..

    Salesman (thinking) "He, He, He, . . . got one... P T Barnum was right".


    My Mind is further closed, until it can be demonstrated that ANY guitar made with the fictions "Tone Wood" immediately and without ambiguity sounds better than ANY guitar made with anything that is NOT wood, tone wood or otherwise... in the hands of any guitarist... Umm ... that one's gonna be tough to do a study about...:lol:

    Maybe the reality is, my mind is not closed, it's just waiting for something resembling viabble evidence to support the empirical importance of "tone wood" .. However, I might suggest those that think a superb sounding guitar can ONLY be made from "tone wood" are, in fact the contingent harboring the closed minds.

    I might also ask, what is the premise of your contention? How does it help anyone? My contention is that anyone seeking to purchase a guitar, that does so with a full understanding of the metrics involved, both Physical and Psychological, do so, better prepared to make a well informed choice, devoid of confusion propagated by mythological "logic".

    I say, great guitars exist and/or can be made using a myriad of different materials, many completely untraditional, and they might be of interest. If I'm wrong, correct me, but I elicit from your commentary that you think, "If it's isn't tone wood, it sux." or am I wrong... and if I am then perhaps I missed your original meaning. Please clarify. What other than "tone wood" can be used to make a superior guitar... and actually it doesn't have to be superior. All it needs be is functional, it's the guitarists that makes a guitar superior sounding. But your explanation would be helpful.

    Now, regarding the quote above... please submit the scientific studies, and/or a link to where they might be found.. and remember the "bar" is scientific studies, that would not be some guy with a few guitars in a back room with a camcorder and a YouTube account... There exists protocols for "Scientific Studies". If they're not met, it's NOT a scientific study. Even a group os "A" Lister guitarists sitting in a circle playing would not constitute a scientific study... it would only be a group of guys playing guitars giving their opinions. That's all.

    actually, I don't think of them at all when I'm discussing electric guitars... I also don't think of Mandolins, Violins, Bass Violas, Banjos, Dulcimers, Diddly Bow, Gut Buckets, Bouzouki, YueQin, SanXian, Shamisen, Balalaika. . . etc., etc., And while all have a neck and a body and strings to be plucked, they all have a function different than an Electric guitar..

    Your contention that Acoustic guitar construction is useful in determining the correct materials for Electric guitar construction is tantamount to suggesting that a Moto Monster ATV tire's construction would suggest how to make a Pirelli Formula 1 P-Zero tire.. after all they are both competition tires...


    Until "you guys" that think the necessity of quality woods in an instrument where the wood IS the amplifier means that only similar woods in a electronic signal generator, the electric guitar, can result in a superior sound, once those electronic signals are converted in to a sonic event... until "you" get that sorted, you're mind is closed, by self imposition. :cry:

    The guitar is a Musical instrument, used by an artist to construct his art.. it is the artist that "produces" the art, not the guitar. :p


    Ron Kirn
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  11. NotAnotherHobby

    NotAnotherHobby Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 27, 2015
    Da' Magic Mittin'
    I could have sworn that I read somewhere that paper caps were one of the caps you should avoid because they wear out easily.

    The ceramic piezo effect was a new one by me as well.
     

  12. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

    Feb 15, 2014
    Maine
    That poor horse. :twisted:
     
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  13. johnny k

    johnny k Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2011
    France

  14. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    He's Dead, he don't mind.. :p

    rk
     
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  15. Blue Bill

    Blue Bill Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

    Feb 15, 2014
    Maine
    LOL,LOL! :p
     

  16. warrent

    warrent Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    285
    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    [QUOTE="

    The ceramic piezo effect was a new one by me as well.[/QUOTE]

    zoom ahead to 21 minutes in this video to see the effect.
     

  17. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Yes, I read the rest.

    And IMO the majority of techs and builders in the world of musical instruments disagree with you. Nor is it even a matter of opinion.

    But enjoy the small flat-earth world of yours. nNo discussion necessary. There obviously isn't one.

    -out-
     

  18. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    Nice Pivot. You must forget, I spent years in communications.... I recognize the amateurish tactics used to divert..

    Now would you like to address the issues or are you simply going to hide behind anecdotal suppositions... if your opinion is that most techs and builders disagree, give me the data on which such opinion is based... and please, make it valid, and verified...

    If ya can't support your contentions with anything other than conjecture, then why don't ya just shaddup..

    rk
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017

  19. Tommyd55

    Tommyd55 Tele-Meister

    238
    Sep 25, 2013
    Southern Missouri
    Depends on the weight of the oil... I like my caps to use synthetic oil myself.. 5w-20 is my pref. I find the straight 30w to just be too darn muddy.:)
     

  20. Nickfl

    Nickfl Tele-Holic

    711
    May 24, 2016
    Florida
    I have a hard time seeing a $15+ capacitor as anything other than Fender calling their customers idiots...

    Which is not necessarily to say that they are wrong, I would guess that they are basing this product and its implied assertion on decades of market research and anecdotal evidence.
     

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