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Fender revamping the American Vintage Series?

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by medveman, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    What were the Strat models? The 54 was a special run in 2014, but aside from that, it was 56, 59, 65? And over here we had 52, 58, 64. So, Fender is (I hope) essentially leaving 60s pretty much alone (unless they wanna do slab boards, which I doubt). And they're merging the early and late 50s. I think the 58 Tele was the worst seller (though I'm not sure why, love mine). If I were to buy a Strat, it would have been the 56 or 65. The 59 transitional neck was weird, if I recall. It's a RW board, without the real 60s feel.

    Looked at this way, perhaps not much change. Except, what, no firmly rooted broadcaster / nocaster / 52 / blackguard? Instead one 50s model, perhaps with white or black pickguard (eeek). How do you blend early and late 50s Teles, and not have a mess? I guess arithmetically you build a replica 55... The Strat might not change much, if the 50s still has the good neck.

    Still not happy with radius and frets. That's the realm of hot rods, like mini-buckers. Nothing 'vintage' or 'original' about it.
     

  2. Lobomov

    Lobomov Friend of Leo's

    Jul 15, 2013
    Europa
    The question is whether this is due to the fact that the AVRI's are soo good that noone wants to let go of theirs .. or they only have sold in small numbers.

    Maybe .. or maybe it is just business. The 58 disappeared quickly. The last 5 years I've only seen two '64s in at my local dealer (fairly large) and 4-5 52's and none of them went like hot cakes. They had a 65 strat that was on sale for nearly a year before it sold.

    I'm guessing it is just business and not dumbing down. But if we are lucky .. then we will get just as good guitars, but with larger frets and a 9.5 radius :)
     

  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Of course it's business. But the result is the dumbing down. The loss of the most interesting bit of marketing Fender offered in a while. The appreciation of the differences in neck profiles, finishes, pickups, etc. It may well result in just a slight upgrade from Classic Lacquer models. Just business, but I don't have to like it.
     
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  4. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    I read something about Leo recently. Someone close to him said that he always felt it was important to offer a full line, and as frugal as he was, he was willing to keep making a few products that didn't sell as well as others, for completeness' sake. The AV line is the best thing Fender's done in a while. Seems like they're carving it up for the bottom line. All speculation of course...

    I represent a certain demographic. Don't know how common, but I'm only interested in Fender AV or CS. Period. And at the prices I've seen listed, I have no interest in a CS at MAP. I got my CSs for dirt cheap (new, but it was a one-time thing). So, that leaves me buying new AVs from Fender, or used CS's (or now used AVs) elsewhere. The only amps I buy are Fender, but they're decades old. Fender is on the edge of losing my dollars completely. Just sayin' Fender, take note.
     
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  5. Lobomov

    Lobomov Friend of Leo's

    Jul 15, 2013
    Europa

    Maybe .. or maybe it has just run it's course. It's not like you're going to buy anymore of them. The same for most other owners.

    Tbh I find that Fender are making great guitars these days. I like the PRO series much better than the am std. And the elites also outshine the deluxes. Why shouldn't a new vintage series any worse (tho lack of that lovely vintage radius and those tiny frets might upset some :D )

    But ok ... for me it doesn't matter much. I have my tele and a cool strat, so chances of me buying anything are slim. (tho a jazzmaster might tempt me down the line. Especially if the do a vintage version with modern radius, larger frets and a decent bridge from the factory)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018 at 3:44 AM

  6. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

    504
    Apr 10, 2014
    WellingtonNZ
    I’m happy enough with my pre Pro, pre Elite and pre AV Fenders. In the unlikely event I buy another guitar it will be second hand Custom Shop, whatever the new production lines may be at the time.

    The older AVRI series had long production runs from the early 80s, getting towards 30 years so you would think there would be a few spare ones around even if per year sales weren’t massive.
     

  7. wooderson

    wooderson Tele-Meister

    196
    Dec 22, 2007
    DFW, TX
    https://shop.toneshopguitars.com/co...n-original-60s-telecaster-rosewood-fiesta-red

    Double bound fiesta red, 9.5", nitro? Not bad, especially if they continue the 'thin skin' features.

    I see it as good business - seems that most people these days are into a flatter radius and taller frets than the AV line offered. Just about every boutique Fender-style builder produces them with 9.5"/10" with 6105/6125 frets and people go there if they don't want to drop $3-5k on a Custom Shop guitar - this is going to crush a bunch of them I imagine.
     

  8. nutball73

    nutball73 NEW MEMBER!

    Age:
    57
    2
    Thursday
    UK
    Hello all, I've been a lurker for many years and wandered over from Strat-talk.

    Nothing much to say except I picked up a new AV 52 just before Christmas and I'm so glad I did - it's without doubt the best new guitar I've bought in the last 40 years, including Fenders, Gibson and PRS. If they really are dropping them from the range I personally think it would be tragic, removing the most iconic Tele of all time.

    If you want a blackguard tele there have always been many to chose from with different radii - I tried two Bajas and a custom shop relic nocaster before buying my AV. But I think there is always room for the "standard" blackguard as it was originally made.

    I'm sorely tempted to buy a backup!
     

  9. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Holic

    504
    Apr 10, 2014
    WellingtonNZ
    Or try a 52HR!

    79687325-D624-4DAC-90CD-0564432EA20B.jpeg
     
    pondcaster likes this.

  10. nutball73

    nutball73 NEW MEMBER!

    Age:
    57
    2
    Thursday
    UK
    Always wanted one but there aren't many about, certainly in the UK. And definitely not new.
     

  11. Lobomov

    Lobomov Friend of Leo's

    Jul 15, 2013
    Europa
    Lovely guitar ... even tho it comes with 9.5 radius and medium jumbos :)
     
    AJ Love likes this.

  12. Lobomov

    Lobomov Friend of Leo's

    Jul 15, 2013
    Europa
    Looks tasty ... so they based their 60s model on the double bound custom telecasters. Always wanted a double bound burst. The new “52” looks alright to me as well. Still claims to have a U-shaped neck. Might be like the 52 hot rod posted above. Those had nice necks :)

    https://shop.toneshopguitars.com/pr...riginal-50s-telecaster-mp-butterscotch-blonde
     

  13. John C

    John C Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 20, 2005
    Kansas City
    Don't forget there were 2 AV '59 Strats - both maple fingerboard and rosewood fingerboard models (with the same "D" shaped carve) since 1959 was the transition year from the one-piece maple necks to the rosewood board necks. So that made it 4 Strat necks.

    Very true - Leo did want a "full line", but back in his day that meant 1 Telecaster (well 2 if you count the Esquire as a Tele instead of a separate model), 1 Stratocaster, 1 Duo-Sonic, 1 MusicMaster, 1 Jazzmaster, 1 Jaguar, and right as he sold the company 1 Mustang. Plus the bass models, of course. It's quite a bit different today where you many models of each type.

    It does leave a void for those who prefer the AV/vintage spec models - but I also don't think these were selling all that well after the initial "rush to buy" subsided - to echo others I don't think I've seen an AV '58 Tele in a store that I've visited since maybe 2013. The AV '64s do pop up from time-to-time (in fact there is one at my local Guitar Center, or at least there was when I stopped in yesterday afternoon). The Strats are also very hard to come by - I've never seen an AV '59 in person, just the AV '56s and AV '65s. But the local stores almost always have at least 1 AV '52 Tele in stock.
     

  14. John C

    John C Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 20, 2005
    Kansas City
    Very good points, but I suppose I disagree with you about the AVs taking away CS sales - Fender had already stopped making true vintage spec CS models before the AV series came out in August 2012 - I believe that stopped in 2010; from that point on the CS was only doing the modernized neck specs (9.5" radius and 6105/tall-narrow frets). Plus they raised their prices significantly - basically turning the CS MSRP of the Time Machine models into the MAP price, and they dropped the NOS versions of the Time Machines as well.

    I always saw the current AV series as the replacement for the old CS Time Machine NOS versions - they even used just about the same year designations (the was a CS '56 Strat and a CS '65 Strat, and the CS '63 Tele is pretty much a dead ringer for the AV '64 Tele). You are probably right about truly accurate recreations going back to the CS, but I think it's because the cost of doing the accurate recreations has gone up to the point that it now needs to go back to the CS - it fits better with that cost vs. demand ratio.

    I've been thinking about this change, and from what specs I've seen of these new American Originals Fender has kind of gone back to the original purpose of the "US Vintage Reissue" models that came out in 1982 - to produce something that had the "vibe" of the originals. The Fullerton Reissues weren't even close to vintage-correct specs; all 3 guitars ('52 Tele, '57 Strat and '62 Strat) had the same relatively thin "C" shaped neck. Dan Smith said in "The Stratocaster Chronicles" that they picked '57 for the maple-board Strat because "1957 was just a cool year. When people talk about cars, for example, look at 1957 - the coolest. Seven's a cool number." They picked 1962 for the rosewood fingerboard for pragmatic reasons - that was the transition year from the slab board to the round laminated board so they could use either, and the 1952 blackguard Tele was a no-brainer as well. However, this didn't stop Fender from marketing them as "accurate representations" when they really were not; they got much closer with the 1998 revision to the series (which had been renamed "American Vintage Reissue" by FMIC after they bought the company) and the August 2012 revision was even closer in terms of body shape, neck shapes and pickups.

    So the new models go back to the idea that these provide a "vintage vibe" without being a true recreation. Yes, the old Fullerton Reissues had the vintage radius and frets, but when they were designed (late 1981) all Fenders except for the about to be discontinued Telecaster Deluxe still had the 7.25" radius and small frets.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018 at 11:05 AM
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  15. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Apr 2, 2014
    Phoenix, AZ
    Damn, so much for getting that '58 I wanted. Let's see what NAMM brings out.
     

  16. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    And there we have it. The homogenization of Fender...

    Maybe we'll get "lucky" and see the occasional "hot rod original" with real original radius and frets. I'm not holding my breath.
     
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  17. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Yeah, I remember. Same carve made it not that interesting, to me. My point is they might be right to drop some of the less popular transitional arcana - even though it was kinda cool that it existed - but I wish they hadn't gone so far.
     

  18. gobi_grey

    gobi_grey Tele-Meister

    446
    Jun 7, 2011
    clinton, ia
    They probably didn't sell well because of the $2000 price tag. I took about a 10 year break from guitar buying. When I came back I was shocked at the prices. What was an already outrageous price of $1200 was now $2000! Holy cow! That's custom shop territory! Who the heck can afford that? That was my reaction and the reaction of everyone else I saw browsing the stores. I even witnessed employees giving that reaction on a couple occasions. There wasn't a chance in hell I was spending that much on a guitar but it was the only line that I had any interest in spec wise so I purchased used.
     
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  19. DanDII

    DanDII Tele-Meister

    166
    Nov 2, 2015
    Sinsinnasti
    The Relic Ready series have replaced the AVRI line. Model year designations abound and I'm guessing that if you purchase them from a vendor other than Wildwood they will not have a 10" radius.

    https://wildwoodguitars.com/product...m-shop/dealer-select-wildwood-10/relic-ready/

    Fender has basically moved the AVRI series to the CS, doubled the MAP, and created a dumbed down series analogous to the Mexican Classics. :rolleyes:

    I do not see this having any benefit to the consumer. :oops:

    Get your AVRIs while you can. ;)
     
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  20. wooderson

    wooderson Tele-Meister

    196
    Dec 22, 2007
    DFW, TX
    Nah, Relic Ready is just the Wildwood 10 relic line without any relicing - 9.5"/6105 frets. It's not replacing anything, it's in addition to Wildwood's various Custom Shop runs.
     

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