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Fender Pre-CBS Custom Colors Project

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by preeb, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    51
    Sep 10, 2008
    Sonoran Desert
    Yeah... great article and a great site, lots of accurate info. This article was my first reference for the custom colors project.
     

  2. holio cornolio

    holio cornolio TDPRI Member

    Age:
    42
    48
    Nov 28, 2008
    London
    Hey Gil (hope you don't mind the familiarity), great article and loads of really great historical info. You've done a really thorough job and clearly have a lot of patience and dedication to this.
    My intention isn't to piss on your chips but just to chuck in some info of my own. I've been working in the surface coatings industry for the past 15 years, and particularly in the world of colour, and whilst getting the best possible matches to those iconic 60s shades is great, it's going to be near impossible to get it EXACT. Paint technology and pigment technology has changed a lot over the past 50+ years, and things ain't what they used to be.
    Firstly, using computers to match colour is something that has only become prevalent in the last 30 or so years, and to be fair, the trained eye is probably every bit as accurate as the most modern computers (except on yellows), and the only thing the computer does is make it easier for the colour chemist to chose which pigments to mix to achieve a specific shade. Those custom colours would have been batch made and no 2 batches would ever have been 100% spot on delta E 0.00 and they would have most likely been matched by eye, by trained colour matchers.
    Secondly, and this relates to fiesta red and dakota red, they were probably originally mixed on Cadmium pigments (maybe lead chromates), and (certainly in my part of the world) you won't find any auto paints with those in any more as they're regulated out. You can get shade for shade drops ins, but they won't fade or react to light the same as those old cads. Other colours also are quite possibly based on different pigment technologies than would commonly be used today.
    Also, (and again, this is based on my knowledge of the industry from the past 15 years and as I wasn't around in the 60s so they may have done things differently) those colour chips in catalogs are almost NEVER based on the actual paint. More often they're litho printed colour matches of the paint, because it's quicker, more cost effective and simpler to do it that way. Even if they are the actual paint, they're unlikely to be overlacquered with the same top coat, so won't read 100% the same on a colour computer. Like I say, I wasn't around in the 60s and they may not have used such short cuts back then....
    The ONLY way to get 100% accurate matches to shade is to go to dupont and get their old recipes.... and they're unlikely to still have them....
    My main point though, is that we've become utterly addicted to the 'accuracy' of computers, and the main reason that colour computers have become so prevalent these days is because big corporations like GM, Ford and the clothing conglomerates, have wanted a way to quantify and measure a concept that they don't properly understand. A whole school of science and industry has arisen from the need to quantify what the eye can plainly see. Trust your eye is what I say, it won't give you the numbers or coordinates in colour space, but it will know if your red is too blue or too yellow.
    Finally, as I said before, I'm not trying to piss on your chips, what you've done is probably the only possible practical way to define, as accurately as possible, what those colours would probably have looked like back in the day and it makes fascinating reading and I applaud your work and thank you for it too.
    Thanks again.
    Matt
     

  3. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    51
    Sep 10, 2008
    Sonoran Desert
    Thank you for the info Matt.
    As I said earlier in this thread... I gave up on any further colors investigation because I figured out that the batches were different and there isn't a 100% match. Computers... well, I use them but test the results with my eyes. The computer simplifies the process and creates a short formula (minimal number of basic colors in the mix). The chips from the 50's and 60's are the exact colors TMHO. Regarding the lacquer, I'm glad the chips don't have lacquer on top because I need to figure out the correct color for the paint layer only. Bottom line is that I had to do this... no one has those paints for sale (I wish there was ) and I need them for my guitars... so like you said, it's the only way I know to get there.
     

  4. holio cornolio

    holio cornolio TDPRI Member

    Age:
    42
    48
    Nov 28, 2008
    London
    Yeah you did, I missed that bit first time round 'cos I'm an arse.:oops: I'm enjoying your strat build at the moment, it's fantastic info, and I'm glad there's guys like you doing stuff like that and sharing so freely, because it's been an invaluable resource for me in the past, and continues to be so.
    There's also a lot of obsessive detailists out there trying to reproduce the 'perfect' 60s strat or whatever, so it's good when someone who clearly knows their **** points out what you did there. They weren't all made the same, out of the exact same parts, to the exact same specs etc...
    Keep up the great work
     

  5. BeeTL

    BeeTL Tele-Holic

    546
    Sep 18, 2008
    Oldsmar, FL
    Another great thread!
     

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