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Fender Mustang GT Series Amps

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by pondcaster, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    167
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    Do you have the ability to try them side by side? That would be ideal. I would recommend listening to a Katana before you buy one. Not everyone likes them.
    If you are a beginner, a standard amp might be best so that you spend more time playing and less tweaking. If you still want a modeler but one that is simple to use and tweak but sounds great... look at the Vox VT20X. I tried one after reading a review here and it is a great little amp. I liked it so much I ordered one to keep my GT40 company while I am out carousing. Racing Green FTW. Good luck and keep us posted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    Jakepark333 likes this.

  2. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    167
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    IMG_0062.JPG
    You could try one of these. David Gilmour used it on tour and his pedal board is top notch.
    I ordered one on sale at MF for $114.
    http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/toolblox/programmable_eq.php
     
    sparkz likes this.

  3. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    It's not as simple as that. There are things about speakers you can't recreate with a EQ. If that weren't the case there would be one speaker model. Try and use an EQ to recreate the feel of an EV12L for example. Can't be done. But i assume thats a programmable EQ? Very cool. i could see many uses for that. I really wish they would make the global EQ a per preset assignable one. I have been able to get some sounds that surpass everything so far using cab's i normaly wouldn't use and a different global preset. But then some of my other patches are screwed and i'm sure not going to be reaching over and resetting the GEQ all nite.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017

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  5. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    167
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    I thought you solved (or at least made better) your primary issue by changing to a EQ preset. This would allow that approach with precision. As far as a global EQ assignable by preset, I'd much rather have a global EQ that I can adjust and save to global presets. I'd then have global settings I could choose depending on volume and venue. The tone stack is the preset level EQ IMO.

    If it's just the speaker... swap it.
     

  6. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    I did, a couple weeks ago. The biggest improvement to date by far is the speaker swap. I'm now well past any doubt that the stock speaker is the amp's Achilles heel. It sounds good in a way, but after some time with the G12T100 the tone is just much better. It just takes time to get used to it and see how you need to rethink the settings. Once i did i could never go back. In fact one day just to see how i felt i put the stock back in. After a time with the G12T100 that was revealing. The stock speaker is crippling to the GT IMO. It;s fine at home but loud it's not good. those people who prefer the MIII....let try a GT with MIII's speaker and tweaked to compensate.

    The issue i solved with the low cut is no longer an issue with this speaker and changes i made to compensate for the different sound. Now i use the flat setting. But i have come to see what preset assignable EQ presets rather then the current global ones would be a huge improvement. It adds a lot of variability to the tone. You can really dial presets in much finer. If they were assignable i'd be about as happy tonally as i think i could be with the amp.
     

  7. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    167
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    If that's the case you should be asking for an EQ module that one can add to a preset like any other stompbox/effect rather than a global EQ that is assignable to presets. If effect and amp templates were added to the GT as I have suggested they should be you could do it either way.
     

  8. 9fingers

    9fingers Tele-Meister

    137
    Nov 11, 2012
    WV
    I guess I missed that you had changed the speaker in the GT100. So you are preferring the stock speaker from the Mustang III (the G12T100) in the GT100? I do follow your Mustang amp journey, so am curious.
     

  9. sparkz

    sparkz TDPRI Member

    56
    Jan 8, 2016
    Southern California
    I've been wondering about your comments about clean boost and Mustang amps. Wondered if the following explanation makes sense to you and other forum participants.

    This is all new sonic engineering territory for all of us and systems and pedals that sounded a certain way for tube amps will sound different with modeling amps.

    Clean boost pedals produce their best sounds with tube amps where the 20-40 DB of clean boost from the OD pedal can "overdrive" the input and following stages of tube amplification into deeper levels of musical sounding saturation. This clean overdrive creates a much smoother and more musical sounding overdrive than can be achieved with self contained distortion pedals that instead overdrive solid state clipping diodes (silicon, germanium, or LEDs). It's no secret that self contained distortion pedals create a harsher sounding overdrive than OD pedals.


    It's an entirely different situation with Mustangs or any solid state modeling amp because most rely on opamp input circuits and it's difficult to overdrive input opamp circuits without hearing harsh clipping sounds and very bad sounding sonic artifacts.

    All this and recent experiences with GT40's several Fender Tweed and Marshall amp sounds in the first 21 presets of amps are teaching me that the best configuration for Mustang and other modeling amps may be to exclusively rely on their internal software overdrive pedals and gain settings instead of outboard pedals to achieve the most tube like musical overdriven sounds.

    Does my experience resonate with users of Mustang GT and other modeling amps?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    Cliffyg62 and JasonKingsX like this.

  10. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    Yes, absolutely. Two things need to be said. One, when you make a radical change it's impossible to evaluate it without giving it time. I have tried this before but felt the stock speaker had advantages. But i made that judgment w/o spending the time needed to evaluate it well. I no longer feel that way after spending time with the G12T-100. Second, you need ti compare the 2 after compensating for the change with the amp settings. When I tried the g12T-100 before but it sounded too dark, but i never spent the time to compensate. After spending time with it i realized i simply had to adjust for it and once i did i found the mids were much better and thats what the stock speaker misses. It's like i said in an earlier post, fender selected this speaker as a compromise between streaming music and guitar tone. That straight from the rep i've been communicating with, not just my opinion.

    The improvement has been very good but as I have spent time with it i've found more ways to improve the tone that only works with this speaker. The tone of a typical guitar speaker (as opposed to the flat response stock one) is IMO a fundamental necessity to what is generally considered good guitar tone. i could go into more detail but most will write off what i'm saying as BS so i'm not going to waste a lot of time trying to explain it. Suffice it to say that with some experimentation I've been able to improve the sound to the point theres no longer any argument for me at least as to whether the old amp is better. It's (the stock speaker) IMO what is wrong tonally with the GT.

    What dies all this mean? IMO the problem with the GT is that the modeling itself is excellent. IMO it IS the further evolution of the mustang line and a huge improvement. Where it failed is in the point where the modeling exits the firmware and goes to the power section. Rather then speculate exactly why i'll just that IMO it's probably fender's compromises in guitar tone to make for a better streaming music experience. But what i am absolutely sure of is the signal at the point it exits the cab sim is fabulous. After that is where i've had to screw with things to get it to where i feel it's potential is, and at thins point i feel i'm pretty much there. the problem is logistics. being able to get what i want from it w/o screwing with settings constantly in the middle of a song. But the tone i expected from a new mustang line is now there for me at least.
     
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  11. sparkz

    sparkz TDPRI Member

    56
    Jan 8, 2016
    Southern California
    I have both Mustang GT40 and Katana 50 side by side.

    Personal preference after recent Mustang GT firmware upgrade is the GT40.

    Most people using Katana amps and heads are only happy after downloading the 28 additional amp sounds called "sneaky amps" which downloads amp models from the boss gt 100 pedal into Katana through computer. So it's not as easy to use as it might seem. Also everyone on Katana forum as do I recommend the Katana 100 over the 50 because the 50 has a lower quality speaker that costs $100 to upgrade and it can only store 2 user presets and it doesnt work with the boss 4 channel pedal.

    I'm voting with my wallet and selling my Katana while keeping my Mustang GT40. Imho the GT40 sounds better and has much greater sonic versatility than Katana.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    Cliffyg62 likes this.

  12. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    I don;t think it's very different because it;s just another area where the designers are trying to copy the way a tube amp works with digital circuits. The way the input reacts should be no different than trying to recreate any other aspect of tube amp feel and tone in the digital domain. And there ARE tube amps that i've owned that sound better with a hit clean signal slamming the input than the mustangs, but there are also tube amps that doesn't take a hot clean boost as well as the mustangs. So IMO they do well with it if not perfect. But like i said earlier, some models don;'t take it well at all. Most do however.

     

  13. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    167
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    This is exactly my finding and understanding as well. However, sometimes even coming in at unity gain sounds off on some modeling amps.
     
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  14. rburd2

    rburd2 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    36
    896
    Sep 13, 2016
    Georgia, US

    Something I did as work-around on the IIIv2 (since I don't own a clean boost) is to either use a low to mid gain overdrive in front of the amp with the level up and gain down. Or I have a cheap Behringer EQ that was always super noisy into the front end of a BLackface DRRI that I now run in the effects loop of my Mustang III with the mids turned up and the level up a tad over unity. No more hiss from the pedal and it works great. But I haven't tried either out on a GT.
     
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  15. brobar

    brobar Tele-Meister

    Age:
    42
    195
    May 30, 2017
    Colorado
    Yes it has already been stated in different forums across the web from people who work at Fender or "friends of friends" of those people that Fender put too much emphasis on the streaming music capability of the GT line, everything was originally EQ'd to give the best streaming music sound and the guitar tone was unfortunately a second-fiddle afterthought. EQ-wise that is supposed to have been rectified (or at least made "better") with the latest software update, but it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that if Fender gave more weight to the streaming music side of the amp in the software... there is a good chance they did the same for the hardware (like the speaker), right? If a speaker was chosen while putting more weight on streaming music audio quality than guitar tone... all the software changes in the world won't change that. The user can change it (by swapping out the speaker), but at an additional cost. I did that with my Mustang III v2 (swapped out the stock with an Eminence Swamp Thang)... not out of necessity because the v2 sounded great stock... I was just looking for something a little more. With the GT line... if the speaker was specifically chosen with streaming music in mind (or a compromise between streaming music and guitar) then to get the best sound guitar-wise will require a speaker swap.

    I tried the GT100 a few times in store and several times with a friend's... tweaking the crap out of it... and it was not a convincing upgrade. I'm sure with the latest software update it has to be better, but is it optimum with a speaker geared towards streaming music?

    I know modeling amps will never be a one-trick pony, but they should be GUITAR AMPS first and foremost. If I need a Bluetooth speaker I'll just buy one. I'm intrigued by the phone/tablet side of editing so long as everything that can be tweaked on the phone can still be tweaked on the physical amp (we won't always have these phones and Fender won't always keep updating software like we saw with the v1 and v2 Mustangs). Maybe the GT v2s will get everything right (the speakers, the software, the apps, etc...). When they get it right... I'll bite. But so far I'm glad I've held off while the other owners do all the beta testing, bug finding, and such for me. =)
     
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  16. 9fingers

    9fingers Tele-Meister

    137
    Nov 11, 2012
    WV
    I get what you are saying but am unclear on your solution to the power amp "problem". I get that you are good to the point of the modelling exiting the speaker sim, and again at he point of the replacement (guitar oriented) speaker.
    What are you doing to "help" the power amp section?
     

  17. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    Basically i've parted ways with my heretofore use of the 412GB cab almost exclusively and started experimenting with various cab sims and global EQ settings and seeing how they interact. For example, the supersonic cabs have certain sound and feel that work great but sounds too smooth and dark with the bassman model. But when i add one of the 4 brightening curves in the global EQ along with the super 2x12 sim i really like what it does to the output. Both distorted and cleaner tones. Add to that the speaker i'm using and the results give me a very all around sound that I really feel is a big improvement. In short, i have tried to get the 412GB's full all around sound bet with a fuller thicker tone w/o losing the brightness and clarity it has. In the process other aspects of the tone have improved. But the speaker is the main thing. I couldn't do much with the stock one because it's got too much top and bottom and lacks mids, or at least lacks the RIGHT mids. Like i said, the models are great. but just like a helix for example, you have to have the right power section to get the best from it and with the mustang you have to work with what you have already.

    But as always i have to wait till my next outing to know how it really translates in a band mix.
     
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  18. Jakepark333

    Jakepark333 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    45
    9
    Jul 14, 2017
    NW UK
    I'm going to stick with my GT40. I just had my friend around who knows nothing about different amps and has not seen any YouTube videos and when I showed him my amp he was amazed. He never once said it sounded muffled and asked me why on earth I was not happy with it. It's amazing how watching some YouTube videos can influence how you perceive a product.
    This amp is so much more than I need as a beginner and also doubles up as a great TV / Music speaker.
    There are so many great modelling amps out now we are all spoiled for choice and they are all great at multiple things.
    So come on Fender bring many future updates and commit to your new online strategy and this new range of amps!!
     
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  19. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Friend of Leo's

    Feb 12, 2010
    Jacksonville
    Yes, good or bad. Listen to Mike Hermans play any pedal on youtube and you'll be convinced that you should own it.

    As for the negative youtube videos on the GT series, there were many people who just piled on after the intheblues and 60 cycle dudes performed their theatrics. In a way, it was just a form of confirmation bias in addition to folks d**k riding the views of others.

    I am almost into my third month of owning the GT40. Nothing has dissuaded my opinion that it's a great little modeling amp. I have no issues with the "wet blanket" tone. There hasn't been a sound that I haven't been able to achieve with a little tweaking.

    I don't care what product is reviewed on vendor websites, youtube or user forums some folks are going to like a product and others are not. Some folks make informed remarks (good or bad) while others just like to complain. Everyone has different motives.

    As I have posted before, make your own decisions. The major retailers let you try a product out. It's also important to note that buyers have different needs, expectations, purposes for a product.
     

  20. pondcaster

    pondcaster Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    52
    Nov 29, 2010
    Tryon, NC
    Can't speak for the larger GTs but the tone (pun intended) of the authentic reviews by actual owners of the 40s are where I figured they would be, given a chance by knowledgeable and honest players to get familiar with their gear.

    Just in my case over the last three months (guess I was the first tdpri'r that got a 40), around 10 other players have heard/played/listened to my GT40. All have been impressed. Not just one or two with others whining. Not just a beginner or a novice or Fender fanboys but guys who are pros, played every tube amp you can name over their years.

    I may be mashugana but I sincerely believe that since the Mustang line was so good and successful that had the GT line been renamed or named properly, most of the frustration and anger would never have been so extreme. The bar was set kinda high so expectations were too. Both nice amps, but while the GT's interface is inferior in some ways, it's modeling and tone capabilities are far better, imo.

    As we now know, our gear sounded better before there was an internet for others to tell us why it doesn't.
     

  21. Georox

    Georox Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 30, 2014
    The tan house in AZ
    Well, he knows nothing about different amps as you said.:)
     

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