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Equivalent circuits and more signal flow diagrams

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by peteb, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia

  2. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    fixed end reflections are like a rope tied to the pole and the reflected wave in inverted.

    Free end reflections are like a rope loosely tied to the pole and it is free to move up and down. the reflected wave does not invert.
     

  3. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    what are the boundary conditions here? the pic is from post 11 and the tube stage has a bypassed cathode resistor, so no signal at the cathode.


    looks like a fixed or closed boundary at the cathode and a free or open boundary at the plate.

    [​IMG]
     

  4. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    What are the boundary conditions here? pic is cathodyne PI with equal loads.



    it looks like free or open boundaries at the plate and the cathode and either a fixed or closed boundary in the middle or is it a node?


    [​IMG]
     

  5. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    is it two of these placed back to back?

    [​IMG]
     

  6. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    What is a standing wave versus a traveling wave?


    standing waves occur when a wave is confined and it bounces back and forth between two reflective boundaries. it is two waves traveling in opposite directions that give the appearance of not traveling. a node is shown at B.


    standing waves.gif
     

  7. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    lets try out the open free fixed thing here.


    a positive wave traveling right would reach the free end at the plate and reflect back as a positive wave. the positive wave traveling left would hit the fixed end at the cathode and reflect back as a negative wave.

    +>
    +<
    ->
    -<

    +>
    +<
    ->
    -<

    it seems to work

    [​IMG]
     

  8. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    lets try out the open free fixed thing here.


    a positive wave traveling right would reach the node and become negative, travel further to the right and hit the free end and return to the left as a negative wave. hit the node traveling left and become positive, then hit the cathode's open end and reflect to the right as positive.


    this didn't work out so well, as only one of the two lines is covered. maybe there is the need for two opposite waves out of phase waves (like there is supposed to be.




    this is not the main point or a concern.




    [​IMG]
     

  9. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    these wave drawings look a lot like wave diagrams for wind instruments
     

  10. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    open ended - open ended



    open ended first harmonic.gif open ended second harmonic.gif open ended third harmonic.gif
     

  11. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    closed ended - open ended


    closed ended first harmonic.gif closed ended third harmonic.gif closed ended fifth harmonic.gif
     

  12. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    This is as far as my analysis has gotten.


    what I notice is that in both cases the voltage diagram is the same as the first harmonic. that must mean something??


    open - open

    [​IMG]

    closed - open

    [​IMG]
     

  13. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    I change my view, I will favor this model for the signal traveling thru the amp.

    It is a longitudinal wave, but when passed thru a resistor a transverse wave is formed.




    image.gif
     

  14. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    The tube has two output poles, the plate and the cathode, much like the wall socket.


    We are familiar with the wall outlet. Two poles that are interchangeable but they are not the same. One is hot and the other is the neutral return.


    Is this also how AC signal eminates from the tube?



    I don't think so. I don't think either is neutral I think they are both capable of putting out their own AC signal, but out of phase, like the cathodyne PI.
     

  15. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    I think the AC current flowing thru the load resistors would look like this with both the plate and the cathode sending out signals that look like this, but in opposite directions.



    Every time a cluster of electrons traveling right is at the same place as a cluster traveling left that is a max, and a min is where two empty spaces line up, and any time the two signals don't line up, it is somewhere inbetween max and min.


    Time to start dr&*king



    image.gif
     

  16. LudwigvonBirk

    LudwigvonBirk Tele-Meister

    Age:
    116
    408
    Aug 26, 2017
    Madison
    IMG_1965.JPG Totally cool thread!

    Let's not wreck it by continuing it.

    Agreed?
     
    peteb and robrob like this.

  17. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Dec 24, 2015
    my Mom's basement
    Its pretty clear all these schematic short hands are porn pure and simple. Well disguised but clearly smut.
     
    peteb and robrob like this.

  18. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
    deleted
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    LudwigvonBirk likes this.

  19. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia

    Good idea!


    I thought I had taken the wave theory approach as far as I could, but I wanted to map out the individual current bursts as they traveled thru the cathodyne PI. I felt I was on the cusp but it proved to be an elusive goal.
     

  20. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

    Apr 25, 2003
    Cascadia
    Each 360 degree full cycle is going to have one current burst, as shown below, but there are intersecting bursts as the rightward traveling bursts meet the leftward traveling bursts.



    The peak signal voltages occur on the plate and the cathode when a rightward current burst meets a leftward current burst, and this happens alternatingly on the cathode and the plate.


    What does it look like?





    image.gif
     

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