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Electrics and probably autonomous - anyone else watching this development?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. h4ck.b0x7

    h4ck.b0x7 Tele-Holic

    774
    Nov 29, 2011
    United States
    Too many people seem to think, with the advent of autonomous vehicles, that there will suddenly be no drivers. This couldn't be further from the truth. Sure, the task of the driver will be relegated to be more akin to an operator but they will still be there.

    Look at passenger jets as an example, they can takeoff, fly, and land themselves with pretty much NO input from the pilot. The pilot is there to make sure the proverbial s*&t doesn't hit the fan and in the event it does he can take over.

    Are there still airplane crashes and problems? Sure.

    What's the most dangerous aspect of travelling via air? Driving to and from the airport.
     
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  2. ricknbaker

    ricknbaker Tele-Holic

    697
    Nov 12, 2014
    Watford, UK
    and those damn automatons will be taking over from us musicians any day now, you'll see...

    Automaton.jpg
     
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  3. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    The driver of the car from which the video is being shot is tailgating after the truck clears that on ramp. Give me an autonomously piloted vehicle with electronic restraints for distance and speed over a human who tailgates any day.
     

  4. Paul Jenkin

    Paul Jenkin Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Aug 17, 2017
    Essex, UK
    I can't comment on the USA insurance practice and, although I've worked in the insurance profession for 38 years, I'm no motor insurance expert.

    However, if autonomous vehicles do finally make it onto the roads, why would their users assume liability for injury or damaged caused by the vehicles? If the vehicle hasn't been modified / tampered with and was being used for its intended purpose and within its operating tolerances, would it not make more sense for the manufacturer to be held responsible?

    For me, the most hazardous time would seem to be when there's a mix of autonomous, semi-autonomous and traditional vehicles on the road. If we assume that GPS works flawlessly (yeah, right!) and that the vehicles also work flawlessly, then accidents would, most likely, be down to driver error. However, if there's the usual level of driver error + GPS issues and electronic / mechanical issues, it would seem likely that the incidence of accidents would increase.

    Once all vehicles are autonomous and "talk" to one another, the roads should be a lot safer. If they ever become truly driverless, in theory, there'd be no need for driving licenses / tests or age restrictions on vehicle ownership.

    A lot will, of course, depend on fail-safes and regular maintenance. I'm not sure about job losses. Manufacturing might not be any more robotic than at present and there'd have to be a massive new manufacturing programme to replace the current vehicle stock, globally.

    There's also the fact that these vehicles are a lot simpler in terms of the number of components used (around 700 compared to 2,500 for a traditional vehicle was one example I saw cited). This means that new manufacturers would enter the market to compete with the current crop. the new guys might have an advantage as they wouldn't need to change their manufacturing plant. Therefore, job losses might occur in companies that can't or won't adapt to compete. Overall, those losses may be counteracted (at least in part) by the new entrants.

    A major concern might be cyber-attacks. If the vehicles are to be controlled by GPS satellite systems, it must be in the realms of reality to imagine that some entity might crack into the control systems (of the vehicles and/or the satellite guidance) and either shut them down or corrupt the programming / safety protocols.

    The same logic could be applied to any form of mass transportation systems - though I'd sort of expect aircraft and shipping to have qualified pilots to take control if the worst happened.

    In London, we have the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) which is driverless. I'm sure there are others around the world. It always feels weird getting onto a train knowing there isn't a driver on-board.

    Anyway, I'll be long gone before vehicles go fully autonomous but I do worry about who will get to specify and manufacture the control and guidance systems. My works computer crashes all-too-regularly. At least it's just sitting on my desk. I'd hate to think that those who made it / repair it would have any influence on how I commute and travel on holiday.
     

  5. tarheelbob

    tarheelbob Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    365
    Aug 30, 2014
    Asheville
    Among all the fatalistic, doom-and-gloom scenarios being touted above, I'll try to add some perspective.

    I work directly involved with companies on the leading edge of all this technology. Most of the features needed for semi-autonomous driving are already fully realized and present our new vehicles. For fully automated driverless travel, the infrastructure needed to link all this "big data", in real time, from vehicle-to-vehicle and communicating with "smart" roadways is the next step and will take some time.

    The savings, the benefit, is this: Many of these companies are working toward a future that can eliminate all deaths caused by motor vehicle accidents. Then, the goal is to eliminate injuries due to car crashes. Then, finally, work toward eliminating all vehicle accidents, period. That's where the savings in life, injury, and staggering costs comes from.

    No, it does not address the jobs, the ability of governments to keep up, and the laws and legislation needed, but it is the vision.

    - Bob
     

  6. RetroTeleRod

    RetroTeleRod Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Oct 24, 2012
    Oklahoma, USA
    Bring back trains! (Steam powered of course.)
     
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  7. T-bone Ted

    T-bone Ted TDPRI Member

    80
    Feb 28, 2018
    Louisville, Ky
    2001: A Space Odyssey

    ???
     

  8. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    In the US... the family of someone killed/injured by an autonomous deliver truck would conceivably sue the company owning/implementing the equipment, and the company who manufactured the equipment, and any manufacturer of outsourced materials (tires for instance), and even people like the construction company that built the road or bridge where the accident happened.

    We're a sue-happy nation. Everyone has to have insurance for everything.
     
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  9. RetroTeleRod

    RetroTeleRod Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Oct 24, 2012
    Oklahoma, USA
    The burger cooking robot is nicknamed "Flippy". Here's hoping the trucks aren't called the same.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    You can’t stop ‘progress’ regardless of the consequences. I am eagerly waiting for the day when the auto’s electronic brain brakes the car when the human brain refuses to acknowledge the dangerous proximity of the vehicle ahead.
    Tailgating is evidence of the inability of the human driver to understand the physics involved in the equation.
    Perhaps the semi-autonomous system could record the number of times that a driver causes an unsafe road situation to occur and shut the system down FOR THAT DRIVER until that driver goes through an extension retraining program. Removing such drivers from the position behind the wheel would be a major step in preventing accidents, injury and death. We seem to be moving toward a greater laxity in driver training. People don’t understand the gravity of operating there things. They view driving simply as a right instead of a privilege that demands responsibility.
     
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  11. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    Growing up in Texas, if you wanted to test for your drivers license at age 16, you could take a class ("driver's ed"). Otherwise, you had to wait until you were 18 to test. This was the 1980s. Not sure what it is now.

    I was astonished when I moved to Tennessee in 1996, to learn that there are no classes or other education required before you go test for your license. You just show up and take the test, hoping that you know enough, or that your family has taught you to drive. ...and therein lies the problem.
     
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  12. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    That will still have people angry and bothered with those looking from the outside seeing how silly it is.

    Truth: I just got back from an errand. I was 4th in line at a rail crossing. The clock top of my car's dashboard never got a chance for the 2nd minute to pass. People in front of me gave the train the middle finger. The woman in my rear view mirror was shaking her head and raising her hands from the steering wheel demonstrating being pissed off.

    Kind of unreal. As a boomer I recall a childhood when being stopped for trains was much more common. Most went by so slow we'd read the build dates on the cars to know the oldest and newest. At times my parents or grandparents would say where the people were going if it was a passenger train.

    We also used to hear the train horns all the time. Now people move by a not very used train track and have a fit wanting the law changed so the trains have to be quiet. The corridor I just crossed is nothing new. The preserved depot in sight was built in 1856. The condos and apartments of the complainers were all build in the last 20 years.

    I'm sure the same people who complain about the trains are among those who complain about the live music from the brewery - also older than their condos and apartments. Naughty me. I like living close enough to hear the bands at the brewery and the trains.
     
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  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    I mean...who has the right to drive a train on the tracks that Those people need to cross, right????? We are living in
    A nation of people who are very, very egocentric......so get out of my way. They will run you off of the road. They will run red lights and WIN THROUGH INTIMIDATION using a large machine to do it. When questioned about their fault, they will tell you where to go while riding their middle finger. If their loose dog bites you, it is your fault. You were trespassing in THEIR world, right?? What a worldview, eh????
     
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  14. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    My daughter usually drives our Subaru with "EyeSight" feature. A system that does exactly what you want. She's pointed out how it drives home what they taught in classes. Other than my wife's car she's only know driving in that era with that technology. She's a good driver and drives in bad conditions to her job as a ski instructor. She likes a car that keeps you on your game if you mess up, a car that reminds you.

    As said in other threads here. We lost a family member in an accident caused by the other driver and common stupidity. We are sure it would not have happened if one or both drivers had a system like Subaru's. I paid $1100 to have EyeSight, nav and the premium stereo in same package - only way you could get it then. After having to identify and retrieve our dead family member I consider that a bargain. We also like the premium stereo.

    We will also pay for any feature like that we can get in a car so we can cut the chance of messing up. I don't want any of you to have happen what happened in our family. Unexpected death sucks. It sucks even more when a selfish idiot did it and she worked for a government agency so you can't even sue for more than the physical costs of the accident.
     
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  15. SweetClyde99

    SweetClyde99 Tele-Holic

    622
    Feb 1, 2016
    Jefferson City, MO
    Deleted. Replied to wrong post.
     

  16. SweetClyde99

    SweetClyde99 Tele-Holic

    622
    Feb 1, 2016
    Jefferson City, MO
    Well, I’m never going to sleep again. Thanks for that horrifying image.
     

  17. SweetClyde99

    SweetClyde99 Tele-Holic

    622
    Feb 1, 2016
    Jefferson City, MO
    I assume the steam power is only for when the oxen get tired.
     

  18. Obsessed

    Obsessed Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Nov 21, 2012
    Montana
    I'm wishing for a huge solar wind blast that knocks out all of our electronics and we are forced to go into a new steampunk era.
     

  19. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    I am sorry for your loss. And....you have a daughter that is keeping her head in the game by recognizing the advantages of a 'continuing education course' such as that "Eyesight" feature. It seems that she paid attention in driver's education, too.
    All road vehicles should have that technology although I would posit that the majority of people would not view them as positively as does your daughter.
     
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  20. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Thanks. It was interesting. She's known that from the beginning. At the beginning she complained about my car complaining about her driving all the time but the drivers ed and her mom's cars didn't. What's important is technology telling her to keep in the lanes and keep a safe distance as well as occasionally slamming on the brakes did not stop her from becoming a very good young driver.

    My friend with one eye got a Subaru with the feature and he's confessed it helped him know how bad his driving was and improve it. Two years with it and he's not had an accident. He had a lot of them and usually 1-2 fender benders or scrapes a year. Yeah, someone will say he should not drive but that's not easy in our society. New cars help him have more than his one eye.

    You are spot on how important this technology is even with it shy of fully driving our cars.
     
    Wally likes this.

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