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Edge Deluxe: RFI Cap

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by JuneauMike, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Reading up on the "Edge" 5E3 Deluxe I saw mention of an RFI Cap being added in the vicinity of the PT to reduce power line noise. Can anyone explain where its installed, why it would be needed and generally how it works?

    Is it like an EMI suppression filter?

    This is a new one on me.

    I read this paper and it while a lot of it was over my head, some of it was interesting. But I don't get the impression that it was exactly on point with what Fender is doing inside that amp.
     
  2. Snfoilhat

    Snfoilhat Tele-Holic

    Age:
    37
    709
    Apr 8, 2016
    Oakland, CA
    This doesn't strike me as an ideal introductory teaching tool (I think it might be a technical explanation attached to a product), but for the quick search I did it seems to explain class X capacitors on the mains AC reasonably well.
    http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/line_supression/capakor_general_technical_information.pdf

    And an overview of the rest of the Edge Deluxe stuff here, though you've probably already found this.
    https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm#Edge_Deluxe_Mods
    Cheers
     
  3. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Yep, it was Rob's site that sparked the question. And honestly, I've never heard of a class X capacitor. So I'm inferring that the capacitor sits between the fuse and switch?
     
  4. Snfoilhat

    Snfoilhat Tele-Holic

    Age:
    37
    709
    Apr 8, 2016
    Oakland, CA
    It's in the first link, above. class X means, if this document has it right, across the hot and neutral on the primary side of the power transformer, parallel to the load (the rest of the amp), and because it is across those two leads and not connected to anything else (nothing on the secondary side of the circuit, nothing attached to the chassis), it can't fail and present a shock hazard. That's how they define class x in the document. It's not very long, check it out.
     
    JuneauMike likes this.
  5. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
    I could never confirm the placement of the Class X cap but like Snfoilhat said it's most likely placed between the power input's hot and neutral.

    I just noticed Fender used "flying" heater leads on the Edge. How did I miss that?
     
    King Fan likes this.
  6. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Dec 23, 2009
    Rocklin Ca.
    I left it out on my Edge mod and the two additional fuses. I think the big game changer is Mercury transformers and Celestion Blue. I built two identical 5E3 except one had a classic tone transformer the other the Mercury’s you could tell deference MM just sounded that little bit better. The cost of the MM transformers is pretty high then throw in a Celestion Blue. I didn’t have the Transformers and Blue I would not have built. Myself I like the sound of the Amp It’s not night a ground-breaking difference than a stock 5E3 just something a little nicer.
     
  7. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    You're referring to the general area around the power chord, right? Power input=source of the electricity?
     
  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    So is this maybe what it might look like?

    The RFI cap would float on a tag strip (not grounded) but attached to one end of the neutral earth wire and the other meeting the hot wire at the fuse?


    rfi.jpg
     
  9. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    540
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    Does this help? Is it C14, the cap on the board closest to the P/T?
     

    Attached Files:

    JuneauMike likes this.
  10. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
    ^Yes, JuneauMike, that is how the Edge is wired and yes C14 is the RFI cap, a 275V .1uF Class X capacitor connected across the mains hot and neutral wires. Thanks for the schematic Uncle Daddy, I hadn't seen that before.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    Uncle Daddy likes this.
  11. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
    That schematic says, "57 Deluxe / Fender 57". It is very similar to the Edge but the phase inverter-to-power tubes coupling caps are shown as 5E3 normal .1uF where an Edge owner has reported the caps as .022uF. It also shows rectifier protection diodes and a surge control thermistor on the mains neutral line.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  12. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Dec 23, 2009
    Rocklin Ca.
  13. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    540
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    I added one to my 5e3. It acts as an anti pop cap on the main switch. If your new $2000 Custom Deluxe went bang every time it got switched off, you'd be a bit concerned.
     
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  14. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Ah, its the safer version of the "death cap." If I saw it inside an amp, I would easily mistake it for a death cap.

    Sometimes, depending on where I'm plugged in at I hear an audible pop in my amp when someone turns the bathroom fan on or off (that suggests that the fan is affecting the amp tone in some subtle or impreceptible way). This would stop that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  15. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Hmm. Fender is a pretty gimmicky company and seeing "The Edge" name on an amp sorta explained for me the exorbitant price tag.

    But looking at the hand-wired board and all the components and fail-safe measures they took, this amp looks really robust, almost "road worthy." I'm not that knowledgeable on these things, but it seems like a good amp to take to a location where you aren't totally sure about the integrity of your power source.

    Am I interpreting that correctly?

    I'm kinda impressed, just wish it didn't have his kitschy logo on it (I love his guitar work, just don't generally like signature-model anything).
     
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  16. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
    I agree Mike, the Edge handwired 5E3 does look like a very nicely made amp with some nice modernization upgrades.
     
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  17. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Dec 23, 2009
    Rocklin Ca.
    Now I'm thinking on my upcoming Tweedle-Dee mod adding the RFI cap. then I read this on Robs sight "Fender added two additional 250V 4A fuses to the circuit board for the 6.3V and 5V heater circuits for power transformer protection." now that sounds like good idea, So would the fusses be inline for one leg of each heater wire? I can't find any good information on there placement.
     
  18. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    United States
  19. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Dec 23, 2009
    Rocklin Ca.
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