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Edgar Allan Poe laid the groundwork for modern physics

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by blowtorch, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    Guitars are more important than physics.

    AND Anybody can come up with monumental benchmarks in science if they have some opium and alcohol...:D
     
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  2. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    322
    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    Yes, but it's the principle that matters ...
     
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  3. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    I saw that special, too, heard that statement, and thought, "balls". My vote is for Sir Isaac Newton. I'll give Poe the Detective story, and good, creepy stuff, but physics? Ehhhh.
     
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  4. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Dec 24, 2015
    my Mom's basement
    Thales is the only answer
     

  5. blowtorch

    blowtorch Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    May 2, 2003
    Wisco
    He only wrote like 12 "creepy" things (out of over 70, I think)
    Have you read his "Eureka"?
     

  6. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Dec 24, 2015
    my Mom's basement
    Not me, I dont read stuff what I cant spell
     
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  7. blowtorch

    blowtorch Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    May 2, 2003
    Wisco
    See I think people are just going to parrot "that's not what I was taught", without even looking into it themselves.
    That's how we got Christopher Columbus Day, and Edison getting credit Tesla deserves for lots of things.

    And plenty of other inaccurate "conventional wisdom", I am sure
     
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  8. unixfish

    unixfish Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Apr 20, 2013
    Northeast Ohio, USA
    But I was taught that blowtorch is wrong! :lol::lol::lol:
     

  9. unixfish

    unixfish Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Apr 20, 2013
    Northeast Ohio, USA
    The "that's not what I was taught" argument makes me nuts. Don't get me started - if we can only believe what we are taught, nothing can progress or move forward.

    "Mr. Hendrix, you were not taught to play guitar like that. You cannot do that any more..."
     
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  10. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    Nevermore.
     

  11. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Dec 29, 2010
    Illinois
    There's a big difference between a fiction writer's work bearing some resemblance to modern physics, and his laying groundwork for anything. Jules Vern didn't invent the submarine. Leonardo da Vinci didn't invent the helicopter. Chester Gould didn't invent the wrist radio.

    Tesla, the poster child for revisionist history, did, in fact, invent some marvelous stuff. But he also believed that he communicated with Mars, (Mars itself, not Martians), believed he could cause earthquakes, claimed to have invented a death ray, and had a deep love of a pigeon, who he was convinced loved him in return.

    It's probably a good thing that nobody under the age of thirty has any interest in history anymore. It's impossible to slog your way through all the tripe that exists today to get to a single nugget of truth.
     
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  12. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    322
    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    Progress in physics is hard, hard work, and has continued to attract some of the most brilliant minds in history. It is grappling with perplexing experimental data - that can finally make sense in the framework of a more advanced theory. It is this hard work that lays the groundwork - so yes, Newton, Maxwell, Einstein, Heisenberg, Dirac, Pauli, and many, many other amazing people since then fomented a revolution in our understanding that has proven over and again to be capable of explaining the behavior of the world we interact with (ordinary matter, chemistry, even black holes) at an accuracy level that so far has been limited only by computational accuracy. It was hard work that they dedicated their lives (and brilliance) to, not something that was a sideshow in their lives. Their work has brought you everything from the 5-billion-transistor IC's in your smart phone, to lasers, GPS, and the internet, to NMR medical imaging and other amazing breakthroughs in health sciences. Poe was an incredible person, but he was not responsible for even a shred of this.

    But I messed up once before with a Blowtorch thread -- and this one was surely tongue-in-cheek also ....right? :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I agree but would also speculate that (not going to be ageist as I point the finger) X people prefer the tripe because they can pick the facts that suit any argument.
     

  14. blowtorch

    blowtorch Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    May 2, 2003
    Wisco
    Tele Tucson,specifically which parts of Poe's "Eureka" do you take issue with, as not being pertinent to modern physics?
     

  15. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    You are absolutely correct. I checked out "Eureka" and see that it does lay the groundwork for Cosmology, Cosmetology, Physiks (that's the old spelling), and lots of other stuff that later frauds like Fermi, Marconi, and Carl Sagan later took credit for.

    Blowtorch, You mentioned something earlier about making money. Can we move along to that now that we are in perfect accord?



    Mustn't forget spectacular guitar licks, either.
     
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  16. dented

    dented Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Apr 17, 2006
    Back at the Beach
    Yes, because I am too Poe.
     

  17. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    322
    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    I tried to say I had no issue with Poe for what he was, and you’re moving the goal posts when you ask whether his thoughts are “pertinent” – they may be pertinent to some from a religious perspective, but that is forbidden territory for TDPRI.

    Instead I take strong issue with redefining him to be someone who laid the groundwork for modern physics.

    Eureka is a philosophical discourse, and while it is impressive that Poe stayed current with the advances of astronomers and cosmologists of his time, it is not good science. Poe seems to acknowledge this himself and says it is “a poem only”. In his introductory fanciful letter from the future he expresses his profound frustration with the “snail processes” of real science.

    A “groundwork for modern physics” has quantifiable predictive power that can be repeatedly verified, and thus used, by others. The examples I provided certainly have done that, and Poe does not. His work did not impact any of the outcomes I alluded to, or any outcomes that I am aware of. Fundamentally, this is because Poe did not invest the hard work and intellectual dedication to reduce assertions to quantifiable, provable things, and then seek to collaborate with others to prove them – either as a theoretician or an experimentalist. In that sense, some would crudely characterize his poem as a heckler from the peanut gallery of physics.

    IMO, Eureka seems to be a religiously-motivated work that is satisfying to a dying man, putting forth a non-quantitative quasi-scientific argument based primarily on geometry and Newton’s law that the universe will collapse, and we should “endeavor to comprehend that the final globe of globes will instantaneously disappear, and that God will remain all in all.” Ironically, perhaps you know that current cosmological data (data, not philosophical belief), indicates to most scientists’ surprise quite the opposite – i.e., that the expansion of the universe is not decelerating for an ultimate collapse, but accelerating.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017

  18. blowtorch

    blowtorch Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    May 2, 2003
    Wisco
    Data is as data's spun. (I won't make this an absolute statement, as I am too humble in my own understanding of everything that is to declare myself an authority on it)
     

  19. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    322
    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    Well, you're essentially calling the 2011 Nobel Prize in physics "spun data". You're free to have your opinion, this is TDPRI after all. Disrespect for solid science seems to be a trendy thing these days. Enjoy.
     
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  20. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    A few significant blunders by the Nobel awards committee make Nobel prize awards an undependable gauge of truth or merit, IMO. "Solid science" awarded Nobels to the guy who formulated DDT, and to a German who supervised poison gas attacks during WWI. Should also mention that Ghandi never received a Nobel peace prize. They do the best they can, but of course, at one time a flat earth was "solid science", and believed by a majority of the scientists of the day.
     
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