Does this Dumble sound like my Katana 50?

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by ASATKat, May 25, 2019.

  1. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,211
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    I don't want to step on Dumble lovers but this Kat has tone. It may not be Dumble-esque to you I don't know but I do know I got the tone dialed in within 15 seconds because it's that easy.
    I meant to have more delay but spaced out, still sounds nice.

     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
    tubedood, Bill, nojazzhere and 2 others like this.
  2. Jimmy Dean

    Jimmy Dean Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,831
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR, houseboat
    Wouldn't it be interesting to be able to do a blindfold test?
     
  3. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,211
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    Lol, truth be told I gotta be happy with the Kat because I'll never own a Dumble.
     
    OldDude2 and Jimmy Dean like this.
  4. Jimmy Dean

    Jimmy Dean Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,831
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR, houseboat
    I have descent hearing for a 68 yo, but I don't think I can hear a $30K to $100K difference. Except the sucking sound out of my bank account.
     
    3-Chord-Genius, ASATKat and ftbtx like this.
  5. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    23,718
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Location:
    Osaka, Japan
    All I can hear is that sweet rosewood fretboard.
     
  6. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,186
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    IMO, pointless. Listen to both live at the same time, which is clearly the only way to do this, and your answer is no. Recorded and processed -- and digitized --and played back through some other system, of course they sound more similar. How could they not? It's totally easy to imitate all kinds of equipment when recording for playback. Live and recorded = utterly different things.
     
  7. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    58,029
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    I love my Katana!
    Just sayin’!
     
  8. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    2,387
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    ^this. If you don't make a thing of it, it don't buzz, fart or rattle and sounds good, nobody cares what it is.
     
  9. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Posts:
    16,021
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    The only kind of comparison I'll make is if I could play around with them for a couple of hours. Even better, play a gig with it. I have specific things that I look for in the sound.
     
  10. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    66
    Posts:
    1,390
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Location:
    Bowling Green, KY
    It sounds good, in a Robben Ford-ish way to me. I tend to dial-in more of a Marshall overdrive, on the Crunch channel of my Katana.

    I was always drawn to the Clean Boutique model on Vox modeling amps. It is supposed to model a Dumble clean sound. It is very similar to the sounds that I dial-in on my Katana and all tube Vox TB18C1. More importantly, it's the sound that I have in my head. Exactly how close it comes, is unimportant.
     
    ASATKat likes this.
  11. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    23,384
    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Location:
    Near Milwaukee
    You mean live in a small bar where the guitar isn’t even mic’d? When you see a concert with 25,000 people and you hear the band through massive line arrays there’s a tremendous amount of processing going on.

    I saw Santana from backstage when he toured with Jeff Beck. I stood 10 feet behind Carlos’s Dumble with the incense stick and photo of Che Guevara. Carlos sounded like Carlos from the pre Dumble era. I was impressed by Carlos but his amp, not so much.

    I see lots of concerts but I listen to music at home for many more hours. If the amp records well then why get salty?

    I thought it sounded pretty good. I’ve been skeptical of the Boss amps because the prices are so low but now I want to try one. Nice ASATKat!
     
    NothingGoatboat and codamedia like this.
  12. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,339
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    Western Canada
    The players that use Dumbles have their amps mic'ed up and are mixed by a sound tech through the FOH. Nobody in a crowd of a player using a Dumble hears the DUMBLE, they hear a miced up processed part just like it would be in a recording!

    The only person that gets to hear the Dumble in it's glory (or any amp for that matter) is the player(s) in ear shot on the stage.
     
    beagle likes this.
  13. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    6,890
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Location:
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    OK....I'll play along. (no pun) No, to me it doesn't sound at all like a Dumble. It does, however, sound good, and since you probably saved enough money to almost retire on, I'd call it a BIG WIN!!!!
     
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    15,412
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    That's a perfectly good distorted guitar sound but it's much flatter than a Dumble.
    The reasons to use a Dumble would be for the way the notes change, AKA note flipping; and also for the ability to get many different sounds, using the possibly 20 knobs and switches.

    Listeners get confused about what a Dumble is.
    It's really hard to believe that users of tools presume a tool is the same as the product it is used in the production of.

    An amp is a tool, not a product, and not a sound.

    We know of a few players whose sound has remained predictably similar for years, and who used Dumbles for that sig sound.

    Then may listeners who are also players, assume that Robben ford sound is THE Dumble sound.

    The Katana clip has a nice even consistent tone.
    And the OP noted that it took 15 seconds to dial in.
    Players that want to quickly dial in a nice even consistent tone are not players that want a Dumble amplifier.

    It takes more than 15 seconds to dial in a Dumble, and the sounds that come out are not "even and consistent".
    In fact the sounds of the distorted range are inconsistent and uneven, because it is designed to produce many different sounfs depending on how you pick and mute, then to further change the sound during note sustain and decay.

    Of course there are certain very predictable players who use a tiny portion of the potential of their Dumble, because after decades of playing they have a sound they hear in their head, and that's what they want to hear come out of the speakers.

    Also, it's again worth noting that a Dumble is not a "$30k- $100k amp".

    Vintage Dumbles used by famous players on numerous iconic recordings sell for huge money.
    Same as vintage guitars and celebrity owned guitars.

    If a regular guy wants a Dumble circuit they cost $750- $3500.
     
    fenderchamp, dswo and telepraise like this.
  15. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,211
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    I think you missed my tongue in cheek humor.
     
    drewcp and telemnemonics like this.
  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    15,412
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    You set up the soap box and I dutifully fell onto it!

    I presume your joke was based on the fact that there is a collective view which seriously adheres to the "in all seriousness" version!
     
  17. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,186
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    The last Dumble I heard was Robben Ford's and no, it wasn't largely PA'd, though of course it was miked, and I guarantee that even if it were PA'd, the nature and quality of the reproduction is nothing -- nothing -- like what comes out of a home system! Not even close. And yes, I do precisely mean the sound coming out of the amp, not the reprocessed sounds recorded and delivered in other ways. Put a Dumble next to your Katana sometime. The comparison is a joke. However -- and this is important, I think -- since almost everyone is doing recording and playback, rather than delivering live, direct sound, an amp like the Katana that delivers a broadly similar tone can be really excellent for that. Ditto modelling, and all the other stuff that can be injected into the recording process.
     
  18. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    5,848
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York
    Sounds like a Fender-ish model with a tubescreamer, IMO. No bloom or note flipping, either. Cool tone nonetheless.
     
  19. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    1,211
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Location:
    next to the burn zone
    What if I told you I recorded the Kat with a Zoom Q3 field recorder from about 4 ft away? I never thought it could blow a Dumble away, that would be crazy. But I do hear a tone that appeals to me in a Dumble or Fender or Vox kind of way.

    As far as note flipping goes, in phase, out of phase,,, isn't that a phenomenon of stereo? I have one speaker and mono fx so I don't have that phasing problem.

    The truth is I will never own a Dumble and the state of digital gear is wonderful. It offers me a little taste of amps I'll never own, Kemper is by far my favorite gear of choice.

    Roland's Waza technology is imo, right up there with Helix and Fractal. I've listened to the GT1000 and a/b'd the audio sounds with Helix and Fractal and they are all very capable of sounding like each other if you know how to dial them in.

    And the little Kat gets the Waza tech too. It is great for beginners and pros.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    15,412
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    I can certainly understand how some players prefer an amp that can produce numerous preset capable sims of other amps.
    At some point I might even buy a used Katana, and if I manage to find a gigging situation again I might prefer a digital sound source that's convenient and light weight, since my cool tube tonez will likely be processed and regurgitated by a digital processor anyhow.

    Note flipping is the picked note gradually flipping into a harmonic during the sustain, and more specifically, the player being able to choose and control how the note plays out through the envelope via playing technique, not using switches.
    I understand the top modelers and in particular the ones that listen to your tube amp and then ape what you do with that amp, so you really can get the playing function.

    BTW my hand wired D clone was $300 shipped from a new builder test tweaking.
    It's a hard amp to build well and this one is not great, has some parasitic issues, but gave me a sense of what these amps are all about.
    For a D tone I would want I listen to David Lindley more than Robben Ford.
    All the Jackson Browne solos are Lindley and his Dumble.
    Really good guitar sound IMO.
    That and tons of other Lindley recordings showcase D tones that stand out to me, when Robben uses more of a smooth even sound that doesn't make me what his amp.
    Bonamassa sort of makes (or made) his Dumbles sound like '50s Tweed Twins.
    Tools for their individual jobs I guess.

    I think at least some actual Dumble customers go to him not for a sound other amps can't produce, but for a custom built amp that suits their needs, with customer service including repeated changes after the amp is finished and the pro takes it on the road then comes back with requests for minor tweaking.

    We seem to get confused by the three edged sword that is Dumble.
    1) custom built and modded after the sale
    2) celebrity owned vintage samples selling on the collector market
    3) actual stupendous sound that a very few players seem to get from them

    Of course a sword also has a part you grab and drive it with.
    That's the fourth misunderstood facet.
    Just because we might buy or try Lindley's Dumble, doesn't guarantee we will hear Lindley's great playing sound.

    Many customers are great players, but don't really have a stupendous sound.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
    Larry F and ASATKat like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.