Does this '67 look ok to you?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Bendyha, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Friend of mine wanted my opinion on whether this Tele looked ok....for my humble knowledge, it seems okay, but I know there are better connoisseurs out there amounst the TDPRI crowd.

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    Any thoughts would be more than welcome.
     
  2. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    And the headstock:
    upload_2018-3-10_15-5-22.png
     
  3. Bluebird

    Bluebird TDPRI Member

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    It looks pretty awesome and all stock, from what I can see in the pictures.
     
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  4. Smiff

    Smiff Tele-Holic

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    Looking cool!
     
  5. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    It is a great looker, but I have some doubts on the authenticity. I am not the expert and sure don't have one to go by, but 3 things jump out at me that has be wondering.

    1. The Black Fender Logo didn't show up until '68. I guess a later '67 might have been built and released as a '68 model, but it still makes me wonder.
    2. The neck was clearly installed while the paint on the body was still wet and the over-spray in the neck pocket is interesting. Certainly could be authentic flaws, but it still makes me wonder.
    3. The string ferrules on the back should be flush on the body still in '67. The weren't raised until later ('69 I think).

    I think it looks great and it sure could be authentic, but there are so many relic'd guitars these days that one has to be very careful when shelling out the kind of money that it takes to buy a real one.
     
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  6. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

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    The black logo appeared during the year 67, as well as the F tuners and the new saddles, so 67 show some variations in the specs. Black logo for october is of course correct. This guitar looks perfectly fine to me.
     
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  7. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    Looking at the pots, you have a stackpole dated 1966...so that would support authentic. At least the control plate likely is.

    I don't know, it sure could be fully authentic, but I would do more research and check the serial number with Fender....assuming the neck plate isn't a fake. I have run into a guy who used to sell relic'd neck plates that he had stamped the authentic serial number that he took off his real instrument. He sold 150 of those plates before being caught. I just don't trust people much with these things. I would have to meet the owner, have a tech tear it down, photograph it, and confirm everything with Fender before I would write the size of check required to purchase one.
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    From here I think it is for real. The solder joints are convincing. That supports an original finish. If the solder joints had been disturbed, then I would have no opinion on therinish other than if it were to be a refin...which I don’t think it is...someone was very good. As to the paint chips on the neck, my guitar teacher told me a story about some new Fender guitars they had just unpacked. The guitars had been put into the cases too soon, so for sure the necks were put on early enough after the finish was done as to allow chips to adhere to the maple neck when pulled apart decades later.
    If it were a refin, then that desert sand finish would tempt me to have a desert moon scene painted on the guitar....coyote howling on the top of a moonlit dune...cactus...fire going...cowboy playing a little acoustic...
    But....I think it is original....
     
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  9. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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  10. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Here is a better shot of the ferrules, It seems they might be ok.

    upload_2018-3-11_23-51-28.png
     
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  11. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    Yup, they do look flush in that picture....so eliminates all my concerns. I have nothing else to doubt it being authentic.
     
  12. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Holic

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    Smart move to post here and flush out every conceivable concern. Looks correct to me -- and in fine shape -- and fortunately you have an "in person" inspection coming to give an even closer look. I remember when '67s were "new" Teles.
     
  13. pcasarona

    pcasarona Tele-Meister

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    I've been researching 1967's for a while now and have a data base of over 110 examples including photos of most of them (see .pdf file below). Not sure if this guitar is already included in my data base, but if you would be willing to send me the serial number I will be glad to add it. I do this purely for academic reasons and am willing to share this data with anyone interested.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A quick look at those serial numbers emphasizes how the serial numbers is not a very good indicator of the production date for the guitar.
     
  15. pcasarona

    pcasarona Tele-Meister

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    Yeah, they are certainly not strictly sequential, but there are consistent trends that show out more than the exceptions. For example, even though there are several exceptions, it seems obvious to me that Aug/Sept '67 was the general date for many of the transition items such as logo and f-style tuners.
     
  16. t guitar floyd

    t guitar floyd Tele-Holic

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    Are they going for a "Rumbleseat" vibe with the blanket, or is that being sold by "Rumbleseat"?
     
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  17. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I see the beginning of the black/gold. True to normal Fender stocking procedures, we also see the gold/black continuing after the introduction of the newer logo because the old is are mixed in with the new black/gold logos in the inventory. So, the use of the earlier gold/blk after Aug/Sept '67 is not a very concrete aspect for dating....as with the serial number.
     
  18. pcasarona

    pcasarona Tele-Meister

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    I agree that the serial number is not an absolute method for dating (far from it in some instances). I have always thought the neck stamp date was much more reliable measure. That said, and with the limited numbers I have collected so far (116 examples), I still think that it is significant that I have only found 7 out of 41 pre-Sept '67 guitars with black logos and 10 out of 75 post-Aug '67 guitars with gold logos. Surely, this is strong evidence that Aug/Sept. was an intentional change over date with exceptions due to lack of strict process control during the transition from hand-made to mass produced products. Remember CBS increased production around 40% the first year of production, so I'm sure it took a while before they had standardized processes. We may never know since the new Fender owner's did not receive any CBS production records. This is why calling Fender about any guitar produced in the CBS era will get you squat back in information. They just don't have the records.
     
  19. Larmo63

    Larmo63 Tele-Afflicted

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    I have access to an under-the-bed '67 Tele that I'll try to get photos of for you. I've been trying to pry it from the owner's hands for a while now, he doesn't even play it.

    I'd rock that thing......
     
  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    CBS took over in January, 1965. They did not 'interfere' with the decades long system of inventory 'control' that essentially piled new stock on top of old stock. That leads to the confusion of the serial numbers, for instance. Had they been put in sequential order at the manufacturer and that had that sequential order maintained in the Fender factory while waiting to go on the instruments, then things would not be so jumbled. That type of inattention to the use of old stock before new stock was piled on top of that old stock continued. There are situations in the '70's where a serial number can be any one of three years. IN the '80's, the E3xxxxx numbers, which ideally indicate 1983...E = 1980's and the digit is the year in the '80's....would delineate things. However, an E3xxxxx number can be a 1988 guitar.
    IN short and just as with Gibsons from late 1962 through 1975, one had best no some details and be observant IF one wants to understand when an instrument was built. And....sometimes you just can't tell. I have had an ES-345 from the early '70's. There was no way to know when it was built outside of one of two years....1973 or 1974. My 1966 ES345's number can be good for 1966, 1969, or any one of three years in the early '70's. Details tell the story......even if I had not bought the guitar new in June, 1967.
    Caveat emptor, and knowledge is essential in order to CYA. On the other side of the coin, caveat vendor....seller beware, as well.
     
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