Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Determining pickup wind direction? And other pickup questions

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Huddy, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    208
    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Couple of questions...

    1.) Is there a way to determine the pickup wind before installing and listening for it to be in or out of phase? If mixing and matching brands,

    2-A) In order to be hum cancelling a pickup must be BOTH reverse wound and have reverse polarity from whatever it's paired with, correct?

    2-B) Is there a difference in sound between Reverse Wound w/ SAME POLARITY and SAME WOUND w/ Reverse Polarity?

    Thanks!
     

  2. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    >2-A) In order to be hum cancelling a pickup must be BOTH reverse wound and have reverse polarity from whatever it's paired with, correct?<

    Correct


    2-B) Is there a difference in sound between Reverse Wound w/ SAME POLARITY and SAME WOUND w/ Reverse Polarity?

    If you are asking THE INDIVIDUAL pickup that is labeled this because of it's relationship in the pair, then NO. A pup by it's own, by flipping the polarity and/or it's wind won't really mean jack to it's tone.

    Remember, a RW/RP pup, is a relative term, used in relation to another in the set.

    Otherwise, either way you slice it with what you say, that pup (2-b) will be weak and thin, tinny, hollow sounding (oop) with it's mate, if the correlation is as you say.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017

  3. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Tele-Afflicted

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Use a cheap compass to determine which poles are N and which are S.
     

  4. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire


  5. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    Digital...........I gotta try this one:

     

  6. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    I got polarity. You're exactly right. That's the easy part. So I suppose as long as the magnets are opposite and there's no baseplate or cover involved it's just a matter of swapping wires, right?
     

  7. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    Exactly, hold off on the solder job ;)

    Also on the above youtube, toward the end he goes though single coils. @ 5 min. 3 sec.
     

  8. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Yeah I meant swapping the switch/ground connections of the wires not the actual wires at the bobbin. Of course right now this is all hypothetical.

    That magnet test with the ruler was exactly what I was looking for!

    I think where I'm confusing myself is that I keep correlating "In Phase" with "hum cancelling" as well as trying to visualize a humbucker as two single coils.
     

  9. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    The part of the video that I might question - and I very well could be wrong - is when he said "you can flip the wires you'll get the same result" talking about the test clips. I think this might be true but you'd need to be consistent when testing the pickups you plan to match. I'm going to play with this in a second... Should take all night! Yay science!
     

  10. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    Oh sorry, I was meaning (joke) holding off on the lead to switch wiring.
     

  11. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    "you can flip the wires you'll get the same result"

    Ya I would say that if you flip the leads on BOTH pups you are trying to compare. If that's the case, he should be more clear. I should think, like the analog meter (needle) test, you would go from + to a - change. When I first starter watching it, I was wondering if he was going to do that, switch leads on the tester.
     

  12. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    208
    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Okay so I'm confusing myself again. How does wind direction correlate with in phase? Are they the same?

    Obviously phase describes wind direction of one pickup in how it corresponds to another pickup, right? Which is determined by the magnet polarity kinda sorta?
     

  13. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    The wind direction of any one pickup doesn't really matter for anything, or how it would be connected, as far as it's tone

    TO BE IN PHASE (yes, it's all about wind)


    If you have two pickups together, that are of the SAME top polarity, then they each need to be connected the "same" as far as wind, that being the start of the wind, or finish. It doesn't matter start or finish, as long as they are both connected the SAME WAY.


    Now if you have ONE of the two pickups that is REVERSE IN TOP POLARITY to the other, then ONE of the two needs to be connected in reverse of the other.

    Then that set ▲ would be noise cancelling.
     

  14. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    208
    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Fantastic Pickup lesson! I did the test and just as suspected when swapping the leads to the multi meter you get the reverse effect of the resistance going down vs going up. I think a lot of the confusion, for me, stems from thinking in the finite manner of the black being ground and white being positive - whereas start vs finish is slightly more abstract and interchangeable.

    Seriously thanks for the help! I don't know what I'll do with the knowledge just yet but hopefully it's for good and not evil. ;-)
     

  15. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    No problem.

    So just to take it another step, now that that is straight.

    When folks talk RW/RP the RW term should really be RC, as in reverse connected.

    There is no standard in the industry among manufactures as to how their pickups are POLARIZED or CONNECTED (as far as wind).

    As you can realize now, with the "rules" above, all is good as long as you follow them.

    So each manufacture solders THEIR leads, on THEIR pickups, just the way they need to be, following the "rules". What COLOR wire they put on the coil wires consists with how THEY wire them, or per the schematic you could say, based on wire COLORS.

    exempli gratia:

    Fender
    (many of them, just for this example)

    BLACK is ground (coil negative)

    WHITE is to the switch ( HOT or, coil positive)

    So really how the pickup is WOUND on the machine, doesn't matter, it's what COLOR lead they solder where on the pickup eyelets that matters in relation with what needs to be (follow the rule) base on the other pups (s) in the SET.
     

  16. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
    34
    208
    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Changing that nomenclature would help a lot but as long as your in the know that's all that matters. One more very general question... If the positive and negative or start and finish is just one long copper wire wrapped around a magnet... how come there is no continuity with a multi-meter?
     

  17. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    With an Ohm meter test, there has to be, or the pup is junk ( broken coil wire someplace in the winding.)
     

  18. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    208
    Nov 5, 2016
    Newport News, VA
    Ohms reads fine. But when I flip it to beep like when you're checking to make sure everything is grounded... No beeps. There should be one.
     

  19. Sparky2

    Sparky2 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    58
    423
    Apr 15, 2017
    Harvest, Alabama
    Hire a guitar whisperer.

    The guitar whisperer always knows the wind direction.

    :(


    [​IMG]
     
    SonsOfMoog likes this.

  20. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    I can't answer that one. IDK if there is too much resistance there for the continuity beep deal to work ???

    Never tried that myself.
     

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