Deluxe reverb

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by golfnut, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    So last weekend I come across a 1965 Deluxe reverb, not a reissue but the real deal. This was one of the sweetest sounding amps I've heard in a long time. I've never been in to small amps until the past year. So I don't think I've ever plugged in to a vintage deluxe reverb.
    Anyway it got me thinking. I have an Allen Accomplice thats set up with 6L6. The classic country band I'm in now I can't even get it much more than, almost 2 on the volume and even that is too loud for the lead singer. So I was thinking since I don't really need all that clean head room, I'd maybe set up my Accomplice with 6V6.
    My question is would this get me closer to the deluxe reverb sound that I heard? Any Accomplice owners out there care to answer?
    What can I expect to be different from the 6L6 set up?
     
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  2. horseman308

    horseman308 Tele-Meister

    482
    May 7, 2016
    US
    I assume you're playing real clean tones? I can speak to the circuitry of your amp. But my VHT Special 6 will take both 6L6 and 6v6 tubes (it is biased for 6v6 from the factory). For clean tones, I'd say the 6L6 is a little bolder sounding than a 6v6. I can't say I noticed any less high-end but the mids and bass aren't quite as pronounced in a 6v6 - at least in my amp.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
     
  3. uriah1

    uriah1 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Feb 12, 2011
    Around
    The tranny for 6L6 is probably a tad larger, I know a bud who converted a Sf Deluxe Rev and that was the first thing they did.
    That might not give you 6v6 approximation you are looking for.
    imho
     
  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Have you thought about getting a P.A. For the singer!?!???? Eeeehaw.... what does the drummer play...an unmiked tambourine??? Rimshot....
    I would simply go acoustic and stroll around the club. If I was too loud for a particular table, they could gently shoo me away.

    On a serious note, golfnut, I would have to have an attenuator in your situation....maybe in any situation since ime there is no reason to turn an amp on unless it can be turned up high enough so that the circuit starts generating rich tones. Ommv.....
     
  5. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 26, 2014
    South London UK
    Go attenuator
     
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  6. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    Maybe someone out there will vehemently disagree....but I'd just swap out the 6L6s for 6V6s and see how it sounds. Would this damage the amp? Maybe try biasing....but is this really bad for the transformer? I know in the "old" days, we'd change out tubes with new ones from the drugstore, no biasing or nuthin', and we were basically just fine.
    Otherwise, just buy a reissue Princeton Reverb, and keep your Allen for bigger, outdoor gigs.....
     
  7. Alex W

    Alex W Friend of Leo's

    You might explore a speaker more like the vintage Deluxe Reverb speaker if it's the character of the sound you're after. If it is just volume, maybe swap the tubes and/or get an attenuator. I would also send an email to David Allen who made your amp. He will be a big help I bet.
     
  8. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's


    It is pretty safe to plug 6L6s into an amp designed for 6V6s, but not the opposite.
    The bias needs to be reset because the 6L6 bias is much too hot for 6V6s.
    Also, 6V6s will result in a different output impedance, not a huge consideration, but it is there.
    My $.02?
    Deluxe Reverbs sound fabulous with 6L6s plugged into them. Add a solid state rectifier, and get ready to rock.
    Twins sound not so good with 6V6s plugged in. It doesn't work very well.
     
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  9. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    66
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    No, and will often just turn the 6V6's into firecrackers because of the excessive plate voltage.

    It might *work*, but as far as sound, you'll only know if you do it and the amp is biased both for the sound you're trying to get *and* in a safe range. If the preamp gain is similar, the driver similar and the output and power transformers similar then it might sound kind of like a Deluxe Reverb.

    But the type of tubes alone don't "change the amp", nor does a minor reduction in power alone change the loudness.

    But what's the plate voltage in the Allen? I don't see where anyone asked that question.

    6V6's are already being run "over spec" in a Deluxe Reverb. If the Allen runs them at a higher plate voltage I would not recommend it, at least with *most* 6V6 tubes. Some NOS tubes handle high voltage jut fine, but many newer production tubes don't.

    IMO if you don't need all the clean headroom you have the wrong amp to start with. Trying to turn an amp with too much output for the playing situation into something smaller rarely works well tone-wise. An attenuator will allow you to crank the amp at lower volume, yes - but you lose the interaction of the output stage and speaker.

    When I was still gigging I had several amps, each intended for specific types of venues. I could crank the amp to the top of its headroom (with the guitar controls backed off 20% or so) and "drive" it into saturation using the guitar controls in each case. In the last 15 years or so (I had to stop 4 years ago due to physical problems) I never used anything with more output than a BF Vibroverb - and that was only in large, non-miked situations. In most medium clubs it was a DR or similar; small clubs a 12-watt 5D3 Deluxe at *most*.

    This avoids the previously very common "too much amp syndrome" - where players would try to make something like a Twin Reverb work everywhere, ending up with a thin tone about half the tim (especially as clubs imposed SPL limits and/or added sound systems with mikes on the amps)

    Every gigging player I work with does the same thing - nobody uses just one amp; they have at minimum 3-4 to cover the sizes of places they play (unless they play ONE place consistently or are always miked - in which case low output + good speaker is the solution).

    Plus everyone carries a backup amp.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  10. Flaneur

    Flaneur Friend of Leo's

    May 24, 2010
    Scotland
    You mean.......

    you didn't buy the '65? :eek:
     
  11. juxtapolice

    juxtapolice Tele-Holic

    601
    Mar 31, 2011
    Jersey City
    It's an Allen. They are built for it, rebias and try a 5y3 rectifier
     
  12. juxtapolice

    juxtapolice Tele-Holic

    601
    Mar 31, 2011
    Jersey City
    And to answer your question: kind of. It will be almost just as loud as with the 6l6s but will hit that sweet/compression spot you dug about the deluxe much sooner on the volume. It'll def be more in the ballpark. If you find the 6v6s too squishy, try winged 6l6s, my favorite with my Allen when I had one and in between a 6v6 and 6l6gc
     
  13. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    Yes I knew I'd have to replace the rectifier. Rebias is not a problem. I've done it a few times with this amp and its quite easy.
     
  14. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    I wish. Just couldn't see spending over 3k. As well with an old amp who knows what problems might pop up. It got me thinking about the newer handwired 64 DRRI though. I'd like to try one to see how they sound. I hate to dis the 65 deluxe reissues as I know a lot here own them but I personally think they sound terrible. My NOS rectifier went on my accomplice a few weeks a go and I had to rent an amp. I rented a 65 DRRI and compared to my accomplice it was thin an plinky. Very harsh trebles. It wasn't really useable at all no matter how I set it. And in comparison with the real 65 I played it sounded nothing like it. Warmth isn't what I think of with the 65 DRRI.
     
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  15. TeleFunk Man

    TeleFunk Man Tele-Afflicted

    Just checked the builder's site. The Accomplice will take 6V6s.
     
  16. mherrcat

    mherrcat Tele-Holic

    562
    Dec 12, 2013
    California
    +1

    I have gone back and forth with 6L6 and 6V6 in my Accomplice Jr. Now that I have a 5E3 clone I believe I left the 6L6s in the Accomplice. I believe the 6L6 tubes I have in it are 6L6WGB/5881; a little less headroom than 6L6GC.

    I checked with David Allen about rectifiers and pretty much anything with a 2 amp filament current draw will be fine; 5AR4/GZ34, 5V4GA, 5Y3G/GA, 5R4GYB, 5R4G/GY/GYA.

    I also asked him about speaker impedance. The amp is set up for an 8ohm speaker. If you use 6V6 tubes you can still use an 8ohm speaker, but technically speaking a 16ohm speaker is a better match for the 6V6 tubes. Either way, he says, it won't hurt the amp. (Hope I'm remembering all this correctly, it was about three years ago...)
     
  17. mherrcat

    mherrcat Tele-Holic

    562
    Dec 12, 2013
    California
    BTW, Allen currently has a '79 DR for sale on his website that he has modified with new transformers and his "RAW" control...
     
  18. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 26, 2014
    South London UK
    The 65 reissues sound pretty good when properly biased with good tubes.
     
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  19. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    +1 on biasing making or breaking an amp. One can always reach up under there and warm the bias up in one of those DRRI’s. We don’t need no stinking meters!!!!!
     
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  20. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2008
    Texas
    It won't be that quieter. I would try it, just for kicks, but it won't be much less volume.

    To address your volume issue with regard to your band, you should maybe try tilting your amp up at your head or putting it on an amp stand, tilted. You can aim the amp sideways, like a side-fill monitor, and tilt it. You want to get it in your ears and out of the singer's ears. I was gonna say, "Try plugging into the second low decibel input" (Deluxe Reverb), but I'm pretty sure the Allen amp doesn't have that feature>
     
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