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Decisions, Decisions (delay pedal advice needed)

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by Southpaw Tele, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    45
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    Lol I've been playing for 20 years. Some of the praise and worship songs downright sound better with delay. Some don't. If I need a quarter note delay stacked with an eighth, it's easiest (and more efficient) to tap that out. The Flashback x4 and Alter Ego x4 seem to be able to do that multi-tap delay.
     

  2. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    In addition to other gigs and studio stuff I played in praise bands for over 25 years, usually with at least one other electric player (at several churches and sat in with others at times). I know what you mean about certain songs, and every player used it to some degree - but usually only on one or two songs per service. None ever used tap-tempo. Most used analog delays.

    I recall one guy used a multi-effects at times but specifically disliked tap tempo. He had played a few gigs with a particularly bad drummer and said it was a hassle having to stand in one place and deal with hitting a footswitch over and over. He just used the delay if the timing was right and shut it off/adjusted his playing if it wasn't (which any player needs to be able to do anyway in case equipment goes south). But he didn't need/use tap when I played with him .
     

  3. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    45
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    That's great, but every situation is different and I need tap tempo with stacked delays for some songs. I'm taking a hard look at the Flashback x4, Alter Ego, and Triple Delay.
     

  4. Tootone

    Tootone Tele-Meister

    176
    Sep 4, 2015
    Perth WA
    The Edge (U2) used to (and still does as far as I know) play the delays first until he had hooked in to the delays tempo, then the band followed him. The whole point of doing it like this was to ensure the band didn't start the songs at the wrong tempo, resulting in "the wall of sound" becoming a "pile of bricks". Live you will often hear him play a flurry of harmonics to fire up the delays and get an audible fix on the tempo. This is U2.

    One "ambient" trick is to fire multiple rhythmic delays into a diffused long reverb. Even if the delay repeats are low in the mix they can still result in a mess if they are off tempo.

    The only way you could use a delay or two irrespective of tempo is to set them up as a diffused reverb. That is dark sounding, multiple repeats, shortish time, possibly with modulation if available. But I already said... reverb doesnt need tap tempo. But why waste a delay pedal as "just" reverb? Get a reverb pedal.

    You mention Albert Lee... slapback delay... short, loudish single repeat. You need tap tempo again... get the slapback wrong and very quickly its colliding with the rhythm. Great example is Rock This Town... 99ms forming a eighth triplet which " fills in " the fast rhythm. You play this song just slightly too slow and that "magic" disappears.

    I rest my case. I dont want to get into a contest.
     

  5. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Nope. It's the only way YOU can apparently use one. Amazingly, others can. Sorry to disappoint you, but some people can use "imprecise" gear in precise ways, despite what you may think.

    Absolutely, completely wrong. In the 60's he did it with Heads, Hands and Feet using an Echoplex for the entire length of "Country Boy" live.

    I understand why som eplayers feel the need for tap tempo. It's a shame you won't understand that others don't.
     
    jimash likes this.

  6. Tootone

    Tootone Tele-Meister

    176
    Sep 4, 2015
    Perth WA
    Good. I'm glad you've settled that.

    To OP.... ignore everything Ive said mate. You are apparently just a s*** guitarist and need to get better.
     

  7. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    45
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    I'm not even sure what's going on anymore in this thread.
     
    Tootone likes this.

  8. Lies&Distortion

    Lies&Distortion Tele-Meister

    381
    May 27, 2014
    SE Michigan
    From delay decisions to delay dogma...
     
    Southpaw Tele likes this.

  9. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    45
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    I was just looking for advice.
     

  10. tonyv77

    tonyv77 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    32
    308
    Mar 24, 2009
    New Brunswick, Canada
    ATTENTION: ACTUAL RECOMMENDATION!

    LINE 6 M5!!! $130!!

    The Stereo delay is capable of 1/4 and dot 1/8 or whatever combination you want. It can also be routed stereo or mono (depending on your amp setup). AND YOU CAN GET WAY MORE AWESOME EFFECTS!. You'll see M5s and M9s on pros boards. It's not a multieffects toy.
     
    Southpaw Tele likes this.

  11. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    45
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    And THAT is helpful! I've been eyeing those m5's for years, but wasn't sure about the delay specifics. Appreciate the tip!
     
    tonyv77 likes this.

  12. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's

    Oct 14, 2015
    IL, USA
    Having played in praise bands for 26 years, I find tap tempo a must-have. Really sounds amateurish without it imo.
     
    tonyv77 and Southpaw Tele like this.

  13. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Sorry if I prompted that reaction. I didn't say or imply anything of the kind. ALL I said is that not every player needs to use tap tempo, despite your insistence to the contrary. Not every player does things the same way - yet may obtain the same results. Part style, part different tools (a reason there are so darned many pedals of similar types), part personal preference.

    *Using* tap tempo does not indicate a lack of skill - but IMO it's very useful to learn how to get along without it. It increases versatility - especially when equipment glitches, or you're sitting in somewhere using other gear, playing in jams when setup is "plug 'n play" and you can't use your own effects etc. If there's no tap tempo on the stage and a player can't work without it the choices are stop playing or adapt. IMO learning to adapt is a good idea, and I've encountered such situations countless times. It also opens you up to more gear choices, like vintage analog delays, tape and disc echos and such that provide different sounds than modern analog and all digital units.

    Neither am I! Oh, yeah - the OP was looking for a delay and part became a discussion about whether or not tap tempo is absolutely required or if there are other ways to get similar effects with delay.

    I'm bothered a bit by the term "amateurish", which is rather insulting to those of us that get by perfectly well without it. You obviously have not heard players use delay well without tap tempo (or may be forgetting some), but to pour all of us in an "amateurish" bucket is unfair. There are a lot of us on the planet with some examples previously noted.

    Your statement says David Gilmour, The Edge (on early U2 recordings) and Albert Lee sound "amateurish". Really?
     
    jimash likes this.

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