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Decisions, Decisions (delay pedal advice needed)

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by Southpaw Tele, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    44
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    I play at our church every Sunday and I'll admit to using delay on about 1/3 of the songs we do. I currently have a Boss DD-7 with the Boss FS-5 footswitch for tapping out the tempo. I also have the RV-6 Reverb which has the delay+'verb setting. I've tried stacking delays, but with no tap on the RV-6, it's impossible.

    So, here are my options:
    1. Add a TC Flashback Mini (has that audio tap tempo and is cheap).
    2. Ditch the DD-7 and get the new Flashback 2 (has that 1/4 note into dotted 1/8th that i love)
    3. Get a Strymon Timeline and a divorce after spending $450.
    4. Anything you guys/gals can think of.
     

  2. BubbaTheHutt

    BubbaTheHutt TDPRI Member

    Age:
    43
    27
    Aug 18, 2017
    US
    Well, not that I'd recommend my course of action to others, but I opted for buy a Strymon, get divorced, buy 3 more Strymons ... it would be funny if not for being true!
     
    Southpaw Tele, Obsessed and Boubou like this.

  3. BubbaTheHutt

    BubbaTheHutt TDPRI Member

    Age:
    43
    27
    Aug 18, 2017
    US
    In all seriousness, three other options:

    Strymon DIG
    EQD Disaster Transport Sr
    Visual Sound Dual Tap Delay

    All have two delays you can sync in various patterns, the EQD has reverb as well
     
    Southpaw Tele likes this.

  4. ukepicker

    ukepicker Tele-Holic

    589
    Oct 15, 2013
    East Texas
    I'm waiting on the carbon copy deluxe. Nothing beats analog delay.

    El capistan has some interesting multihead opions. And tap tempo. And sounds really cool with that warble and crinkle.

    Also, DD-500 would get my money before a Timeline. And the RV-500 also has lots of presets and delays available. If I was a worship guy, that might be just the ticket.
     
    Southpaw Tele likes this.

  5. bluetinstar

    bluetinstar TDPRI Member

    75
    Aug 1, 2017
    Hampshire, UK
    TC Electronic Flashback Triple Delay.
    It's 3 Flashbacks in 1 box !!!
    The Holy Trinity ??? :D
     
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  6. Rythameen

    Rythameen Tele-Meister

    141
    Jun 24, 2017
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Take a look at the Boss DD 500. I found a used one for $200 and change, awesome delay.
     
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  7. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    44
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    Does the DD-500 have any reverbs built in? I could sell the DD-7 and RV-6 to fund one, if so.
     

  8. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Impossible for what exactly? Are you only using timed delay? If so - why?

    FWIW I generally use analog delay as a spring reverb substitute (Fender amp reverb primarily affects highs) with two units set to different repeats and intensity. The only time I have ever used timed delays was for U2-like repeats - but that's a rare song-specific need.

    I have heard players use timed delays on pretty much every song, and honestly it becomes tiring to the ea. Like any effect it's best used sparingly unless *very* subtle. It's hard to imagine a "subtle" need for timed delay very frequently.
     
    Geo and mitchfinck like this.

  9. bacongrease

    bacongrease Tele-Meister

    424
    Mar 27, 2013
    I refuse to buy strymon. What a gyp.
     

  10. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    44
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    There are some songs that really require a 1/4 note into a dotted 1/8th for a rhythmic delay. It's hard enough setting that with the knobs, but it's compounded when the drummer gets a little off tempo. He's really good, but it happens when you have a run away piano player, too.
     

  11. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    "Songs" plural? And the delay achieves...what exactly? And how long is the repeat? Seriously, I understand the timing - I just can't fathom the "why" unless it's something extremely style-speciific.
     

  12. Tootone

    Tootone Tele-Meister

    176
    Sep 4, 2015
    Perth WA
    Here's what you should do.

    To be clear, Tap tempo delays are an absolute necessity for live sets, whether the delay repeats are background ambient or in your face. The "live" BPM set down by the drummer only needs to be a few cents adrift from the "rehearsal" BPM, and your carefully crafted delay times will start to pulse and clash against what you and the band are playing. I know from experience that sounds dreadful. Without tap tempo you would need to manually adjust all delays by ear whilst playing live. That aint gonna happen. What really happens is, the rest of the band give you dirty looks and you switch off all your delay pedals.

    Your problem is genuine and has been experienced by guitarists/bands for decades.

    It sounds like you are using delays and echo/reverb to create ambient "pads" as a backwash to your "dry" guitar. Nothing new here, David Gilmour for one, has been doing it since the 60's. Rhythmic delays can greatly enhance the cadence, or they can bring it crashing down if they are "off".

    If your desire is to "craft" multi delay lines controlled with a single "foot tap-able tempo switch" then you need to look at the TC Electronics Triple Delay. I think it is unique in this respect.

    If you need something with multiple user presets to recall, I can recommend the Strymon Timeline... but this can only do 2 delay lines at once. There are other good alternatives here... Boss, Eventide etc.

    For Reverb... tap tempo is not so important here... I can recommend the Strymon BigSky... worth it just for the "cloud" and "shimmer" features on their own. But again there's a lot of good choices here.
     

  13. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Has Gilmour really been using tap since the 60s?
     

  14. Tootone

    Tootone Tele-Meister

    176
    Sep 4, 2015
    Perth WA
    No... he has been layering multiple delays though, with rhythmic repeats and/or ambient wash. I read he also tinkered with the drum motors on Binson Echorecs allowing a low tech form of tap tempo and giving an "in tempo" galloping dotted-eighth+quarter rhythmic delay.
     

  15. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Nope. they may be for what you do but virtually no players I've worked with in 20 years that used delay has used tap-tempo. In my case I've used one or two delays (two at different delay times and repeats) as fatter-sounding substitutes for Fender combo-type spring reverb (the "ambient" use); a single delay or echoplex for "speed trick" note doubling (something Albert Lee has also done quite a bit, also without tap tempo; used it for several measures of chord "bounce" (without it going weirdly off-tempo - some of us work with consistent drummers) and several other applications.

    Many delay uses require reasonably accurate timing - which, in a good band, isn't a problem with any delay. Other uses - most of them - don't require time-specific delay at all.

    If you need tap-tempo, great - use it. but some of us don't and it's not a problem.

    Nope - the Echorecs the result was never very precise, using pedal type speed controllers (similar to sewing machine speed controllers) - also used by The Edge. No tap tempo, just a variable controller. It relies on your foot - or a tech offstage - to control the speed continuously.
     

  16. Tootone

    Tootone Tele-Meister

    176
    Sep 4, 2015
    Perth WA
    I note you said you work with very accurate drummers (possibly playing to a click but thats another story). Good for you.

    For us mere mortals I stand by what I said.

    Using delay as reverb can still run you into some "throbbing" issues - depends on how diffused the repeats are. Again I stand by my comments... for the OP... who by the sounds of it is not a professional music behemoth.
     
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  17. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

    Oct 21, 2013
    KS
    But you could look at MS-3. I have yet to play one but believe with ext foot switch you can set up global tap tempo and dual delays etc. plus you gain presets as well that can integrate your od pedals etc through the switchable loops.
     

  18. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    44
    Jun 30, 2008
    The Golden State
    I would love an MS-3, but just don't have the funds. Really cool features and would definitely fit on my board. But $400...sigh...
     

  19. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    There's nothing "immortal" about working with drummers...or drummers themselves...that keep consistent time. In 50+ years of gigging I've rarely played with ones that couldn't.

    But I have seen bands that held onto mediocre...even downright bad...drummers because of friendship, or something silly like the drummer owning the only truck. That's when bands make poor personnel decisions and in most cases they eventually die off. There are more good drummers than there are gigs, but some bands don't look for them.

    And sorry, but I feel you haven't used delays much as a reverb sub if you think there are "throbbing" issues. Used well there simply aren't, and it's not that complicated - I've showed plenty of other players basic settings with no problems and no complaints later about "throbbing". IF that is seen as a problem it must be setting issues.

    I understand the OP isn't an experience player - but using tap-tempo on more than isolated songs can turn into a serious crutch, just like reliance on compression to "level" pick attack, or super-saturated distortion to cover skill issues - instead of moving forward with playing skill. For decades players of various levels have learned how to use delay without tap-tempo, and with the introduction of it how to use it as an "effect" - something implemented sparingly.
     

  20. Lies&Distortion

    Lies&Distortion Tele-Meister

    366
    May 27, 2014
    SE Michigan
    A TC Flashback or Alter-ego should be able to do that without costing a fortune.
     

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