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Dang it! @%#&! I guess I’ll have to build a delay pedal then

Discussion in 'Burnt Fingers DIY Effects' started by awasson, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    So... I decided I was going to build a Reverb pedal using a fancy pants little digital Reverb Block device. I found the circuit and layout on the Tag Board Effects site, I ordered the Reverb Block thingy, I started a build thread on TDPRI, collected all the parts I had on hand and then I ordered a brand spanking new piece of vero board.

    I haven’t bought a new piece of vero board since the 1980’s because I always seemed to have some here but I finally ran out, so I paid the big bucks for a nice shiny new vero board with silver traces. It’s lovely. It even has numbers marking the columns of holes, so instead of counting the number of holes I need, I can read the numbers, draw some lines and then cut the board with my Dremel tool. Easy, peasy.

    The board needs to be 22 holes in width by 18 holes high. I tend to give myself at least one more row of width because invariably I’ll cut too close to the last column and with the extra row, I can grind it down to the correct width and have a nicely finished edge. Anyway, I’ll cut it 23 holes wide by 18 holes high. Locked and loaded.

    168F0F43-1421-4DC0-B9FD-787042080423.jpeg

    Anyone see a problem?

    I cut that board, inspected it, gave myself a pat on the back, had a shower, grabbed a coffee, called my mom to wish her a happy new year and then glanced at it and saw what I had done :mad:

    Time to shift gears. We’re building something that fits an 18 x 18 grid now.

    As luck would have it, the Tag Board Effects website has a delay pedal layout that will fit an 18 x 18 grid and I really was planning to build a delay pedal so... So that’s what I’m building while I wait for my new vero board to arrive. I was surprised at the number of layouts they have that are 19 x 18 :rolleyes:

    The project description and layout can be found here, if anyone is interested: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.ca/2014/04/grind-customs-fx-deprofundis-delay.html

    It uses a PT2399 delay chip, a TL072 Opamp for the mixer and a bunch of support circuitry. I like that it’s got a little 78L05 voltage regulator for the delay chip. It’s super low amperage but cool to have that level of care and attention in a DIY pedal. Apparently it’s a very good delay which I’m happy about. I’ve never had a delay pedal I was particularly happy with. This one has controls for Time, Tone, Feedback & Mix (wet/dry). There are a tonne of comments on the build page at the Tag Board website from builders and the overwhelming majority are positive.

    So armed with my 18 x 18 board, I marked it up for the jumper wires and cuts and started work on it. My mode of operations with these vero board projects is to do the cuts first, then I do the jumpers, then I’ll add my sockets, then resistors, caps, transistors, diodes or other semi conductors.

    I find the most efficient way to make the cuts to the traces is to use a 5/32 drill bit. It’s just a large enough diameter to take out the foil conductor without compromising the board.

    Here are some build photos:

    31DB8967-AF2A-434E-A8E3-F5C5793D4423.jpeg 5EE43D3E-A07E-4CF2-988C-FEDBAA38B1D0.jpeg 7AC3300E-5FD9-4D2B-889B-8E877501F5D7.jpeg C0616815-64DD-48DF-BFEE-F40337E3BC5E.jpeg


    Here’s where I’m at with it currently. I’ve installed all of the parts I have on hand on the board. I’ve got 8 capacitors and 9 resistors left to go on it and they’ll be in tomorrow (with my new vero board for the Reverb project). I’ve installed the voltage regulator chip (looks like a transistor). I’ve got the TL072 chip in stock but I don’t have the PT2399. A’s luck would have it, I ordered a lot of 10 of them from Amazon a couple of weeks ago but they’re from China so odd are I won’t see them for a couple of weeks yet.

    4297A0B1-D8B0-4FB7-A912-963B9BD37486.jpeg

    Thanks for reading my long-winded saga and I’ll upload more photos as I near completing.

    Cheers,
    Andrew
     

  2. Bristlehound

    Bristlehound Tele-Holic

    Age:
    57
    986
    Jan 4, 2017
    Wales
    ooo - looking good. It's a while since I've done a vero board build so I'll be watching with interest.
     
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  3. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Just got a delivery from Digikey with the remaining parts for this one and a replacement vero board for the Reverb project. I'm still waiting on the PT2399 delay chip but I should be able to wrap up the rest of the parts placement by the end of the day.

    IMG_3704.jpg
     
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  4. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Another quick update. All of the parts are soldered in and I'm waiting on the last part: The PT2399 Digital Delay IC.

    I'll wire in the input/output, true bypass and potentiometers next. Then it's just a matter of waiting for the chips to arrive.

    The current state of the board:


    IMG_3706.jpg
     
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  5. drlizardo

    drlizardo Tele-Meister

    169
    Apr 4, 2013
    Central Illinois
    It's looking good. I just built a clone of the Deep Blue delay from Mad Professor. It's the second pt2399 I've built and the chip is sooo noisy. Every repeat has a white noise 'shhh' sound behind it. It's been suggested to buy several chips and swap them around until you find a quiet one. I hope you get a good one though. I'll follow the thread for your results
     
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  6. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Yup, I've read about some of these pt2399 being noisy too. I've got 10 pieces coming in and I think I'll order another lot as well just to be on the safe side. I found a reverb circuit that uses a pt2399 and is apparently extremely noise free so I'm going to try that one as well, just as something to build once this one is done.

    I think for my next trick, I'll get the little stomp box drilled out and ready to box it up.
     
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  7. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 13, 2013
    Initech, Inc.
    Dig it. I have a collection of parts and vero boards I’ve been collecting, I need to get going myself.
     
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  8. matmosphere

    matmosphere Tele-Meister

    288
    May 27, 2015
    District of Columbia
    Great project! I built one a few years back and it’s a very nice sounding delay, the tone control is what really sets it apart.

    As far as the 2399 goes I’ve found that buying them from a reputable source is the best way to get decent chips. There are a lot of subpar 2399’s on the market unfortunately. The noisey ones generally have an interesting lofi sound, but if you want nice clear repeats make sure to track down a good chip.
     
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  9. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Good to know. Thanks for the info about the different suppliers. I couldn’t find them at Digikey, my usual, goto electrical supplier so I got them from Amazon for about $1.00 a piece. I have seen them on AliExpress for less than 30 cents a piece but stayed clear of them. I may pick up a dozen for $3.00, just to see what’s what with them.
     

  10. drlizardo

    drlizardo Tele-Meister

    169
    Apr 4, 2013
    Central Illinois
    I buy everything from Tayda so maybe that's my problem. Matmosphere, where are you buying them from?
     

  11. matmosphere

    matmosphere Tele-Meister

    288
    May 27, 2015
    District of Columbia
    I buy a lot of stuff from Tayda as well. Their 2399 used to be quite good but there was a noticeable change 18-24 months ago.

    Smallbear and Mammoth are both reliable places to get good ones, but they’re a lot pricier. I’d check out the ones you’ve got coming first. If you aren’t happy with the sound of the pedal then it’s probably worth spending the money and trying one from smallbear.
     
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  12. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Just another quick update while I patiently wait for my 2399's.

    I started getting the box ready to take the internals. I'm using a 1950B, which will be a bit of a challenge but I wanted it to be nice and compact. I'll use it with my pedal power supply but I'm wiring in a 9 volt battery connector and I'll make space for the battery and wire the bypass into the power plug for it too. On the top, the controls will be Time, Feedback for the top row and then Mix and Tone for the row below. It's a tight fit and I had to carefully trim the PC Board to get it to fit. Here are some construction pictures.

    IMG_3709.jpg IMG_3713.jpg IMG_3710.jpg IMG_3712.jpg
     
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  13. drlizardo

    drlizardo Tele-Meister

    169
    Apr 4, 2013
    Central Illinois
    Looks great. I bet you're getting impatient!
     

  14. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Another quick update. Still no sign of the 2399's but in the meantime I've wired in the power and input output with my true bypass DPDT foot switch. I've wired it to run of an internal 9 volt or the adapter. I'm sure I'll never use the internal 9 volt battery but I thought it was novel to load up all of the electronics and include and internal 9 volt battery like a real off the shelf pedal. Its also been handy for testing.

    I chose the DPDT instead of TPDT so that it's not such a heavy click. I built the Millennium Bypass 2 circuit into it to turn on the LED. It calls for a BS170 JFET which I cant seem to source so I used a 2n7000 and reversed it 180 degrees to the layout because although the 2n7000 is nearly electrically identical the pinout is opposite.

    Millennium Bypass 2 on tag board effects site: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.ca/2014/01/millennium-bypass-2.html

    Here are a couple of shots showing how crowded it's getting and the little Millennium Bypass 2 board.

    IMG_3719.jpg IMG_3720.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  15. Bristlehound

    Bristlehound Tele-Holic

    Age:
    57
    986
    Jan 4, 2017
    Wales
    ooo - thanks for the Millennium Bypass link, that's really useful.

    There's also the Optopuss - an optical true bypass that uses a DPDT.
     
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  16. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Wow, that’s cool. Thanks for sharing that.

    I just looked at the data sheet for the little white 4 pin box that does all of the heavy lifting in the Optopuss. It’s a TOSHIBA Photocoupler Photorelay and it looks like it packs a pair of FET photo transistors in front of an infrared diode to switch the LED on and off. Totally overkill but it’s a tiny bit of circuitry and will definitely stand the test of time.

    There’s an updated version of the Millenium Bypass that adds another transistor into the mix for more stability. I haven’t seen a Tagboard for it so I think at some point I’ll do a layout for it and submit it. I’ve got a whack of home built pedals, all with 3PDT switches and I’d like to convert them to 2PDT for a lighter switch. Eventually ID like to use a momentary Footswitch and have a patching relay type of true bypass going on, like an MXR pedal.
     

  17. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    On the subject of bypasses and whatnot, I just checked and there is a soft latching (momentary) latching relay circuit up at Tagboard Effects in the utility section: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.ca/2014/06/soft-latch-relay-bypass-daughterboard.html

    I think eventually this will go in all of the boxes I have that will fit it. Not this delay pedal because it's so crowded but I've got some less crowded effects I could work it into.
     

  18. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Final update until I get the 2399's which are stated to arrive by Jan 30th (I ordered Dec 14).

    So, Im done with the wiring and all I need to do is plug in the chip when it arrives. I've tested it as much as possible until I get the actual chip and I see a nicely regulated 5 volts on pin 1 of the PT2399 and 9 volts on pin 8 of the OP Amp so I should be in business (fingers crossed).

    Photo of it all wired up and ready to go.

    IMG_3721.jpg

    Note: Next time I'm going to see how these guys do at delivering parts: https://pedal-parts.com/en/. They seem to have everything I would want in specialty pedal parts and they'll even drill the enclosure for you for a couple of dollars extra.
     

  19. NotAnotherHobby

    NotAnotherHobby Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 27, 2015
    Da' Magic Mittin'
    As an fyi, you'll have problems if you assume that good chips come from "reputable" dealers. Those chips are usually produced in lots and sold by brokers. There is a lot of assumed q/a after they leave the factory. So you are likely to get bad chips from good suppliers. Where a suppliers rep come in is what the so when you have a load of bad chips.

    I've worked at places where the chips were nothing but clay slugs. Expensive clay slugs.

    As far as Amazon is concerned, I've eyed buying stuff from them, and even have a bunch of stuff on my desk from them right now. I am horribly skeptical as to whether the stuff works. But I tend to stick with vendors that have some sort of footprint in the US. But that's me.
     

  20. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Yup, lots of junk is available. I figured with an order of 10 or more, I could weed out the junk.

    Funny thing about Amazon is the vendor is "Welworth ProductsUS". As far as I can tell there is no chance they are in the US and I had to laugh at the name.
     

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