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Colors needed for dirty lemon burst

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by sleazy pot pie, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    1507125981449.png

    What colors would i need to use to get close to this finish?
    I know that the base is yellow, not amber. I would think then some speratic red very lightly, followed by tobacco or mission brown- maybe dark maple brown? Then amber clear over the whole thing followed by clear?

    I am going to try to get something close to this but on a pine les paul jr body. So i cant really do a sand back method. Was plannjng on just layering the colors with clear coat between each color in case i need to remove a color without starting over.

    Any direction would be appreciated
     

  2. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    It depends on your finish method and how you want to get the color. Dye is a completely different process from stain, which is different form toners.

    But you won't get anything close to that on pine. You will only get the general shades with (usually) almost no grain highlights. You'll also need to use grian filler on pine.

    What is the final finish system; the application method; and have you done it before? Also, have you looked up and finish processes online? No matter what you end up using it's going to involve several different materials applied in different ways - and most in multiple coats. It's a lot to just type up in a thread - it's usually a web page full of detail.

    And plan on finishing a practice piece with the entire system before you work on the guitar - that way you'll know what to expect out of each process.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.

  3. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    I am trying to approximate the shade . My plan is to mix my own colors in lacquer and layer the colors to see how close i can get. Sandiching clear in between each color.
    Not sure that pine needs grain filling.
     

  4. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Pine needs sanding sealer and filler to both create part of the color and control penetration of dyes or stains. Pine is very soft compared to most other woods used for guitar bodies and the grain is very porous. If you don't seal and fill it you're stain or dye will penetrate like mad in inconsistent, blotchy "non-patterns".

    You won't get yellow using tinted lacquer alone, at least not like that. You'll need to use dye for at least the background color that is used over the entire body top. Part of the issue is the pine can be neutral or have a red or greenish color. If it's neutral you *may* get lucky with the yellow dye, but if it has either shade to it you'll need to use 2-step wood bleach to get it as light and shade-free as possible before doing anything else.

    Without seeing the pine there no way to even wild guess at the tints needed, but if you Google both dye and pigment "... colors needed for lemonburst Les Paul lacquer finish" you should find several different options. You'll absolutely have to mix test batches and shoot on scrap first anyway.

    I've been doing them since the 70's and always end up with all dyes and often at least one of the lacquer test batches needing a remix before I get the exact shade *and* concentration I need. At least a pint of dye and lacquer gets wasted each time - mixing less is out as the tolerances are so tight in small batches that color float is a real problem.
     

  5. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    I will post up a picture later today.
    It is a nice clear piece of pine with decent grain pattern. The problem that i have run into with pine is the light becomes the darker part, creating a negative effect. I am thinking i can put down a coat oc clear sanding sealer, sand that, then do a coat of brown tinted ss to bring up the grain some.
    After that do a layer of yellow. Then figure out where to go from there.
    I have a nice 2x6 that the grain is similar to my body that i am going to mess with this weekend and see how it goes. I understand i will not get the same finish on pine as i would on maple, just wanting to try something different than a solid color for this one.
    Thanks for your input.
    I find that there is a lit of finish info for teles here, but not nearly as much on some of the les paul boards.
     

  6. 4Teles

    4Teles Tele-Meister

    144
    Nov 5, 2006
    hampton beach nh
    To get a lemon burst, use amber and blue tinted nitro, bursted over a yellow base with a couple of coats of clear for depth. When I did these about five years ago, I used 2 different ambers from Transtint. Honey Amber mixed with a premixed blue tinted lacquer, only because I had the stuff, to spray a faded burst. I used Transtint Light Amber on the clear coats until I liked how the burst colors meshed with the yellow center as well as match up the scraped area on the binding. When satisfied with the overall look, few coats of untinted nitro to protect going thru from over polishing. It gets a pretty realistic lemon fade.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    My guess is they go a bit heavier with the amber tint for a dirty lemonburst.
    Or maybe add a few drops of red tint into the blue and amber mix which is what I did to get to get on this '56 conversion.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    rze99, tvvoodoo and Zeonoid like this.

  7. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    He's doing it on pine - not maple. Colors often take differently in radical ways on softwoods.
     

  8. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Wow, 4teles, those are amazing. That is def in the realm of what i am interested in. Never would have thought blue. 1507396869762.jpg 1507396874158.jpg
    1507396966454.png this is the body and this fano is my original inspiration. I realize the fano is not close to a lemon burst, but someone posted a picture of their les paul in a jj cale thread earlier this week and it made me ask about the finish.
    So thanks for the help.

    Could you tell me a little more about how the blue comes into play? Do you do a layer of blue tinted clear or add the blue to the amber? I am guessing the blue makes the amber less orange maybe?
     

  9. 4Teles

    4Teles Tele-Meister

    144
    Nov 5, 2006
    hampton beach nh
    Of course. It also goes with different pieces of maple. The '56 was pretty dark compared to the other two. You have to use your eye and judge. But if my post on how to achieve a les Paul lemon burst is somehow not up to anyone's standards, I can easily delete it. Lemme know.
     

  10. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Please dont. I for one completely appreciate it.
     

  11. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    No, I wasn't criticizing - just qualifying it as pine will usually take dyes much differently than any piece of flamed maple.
     

  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Friend of Leo's

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    You could use Acrylic bottle paint from the Hobby store(Yellow & Brown), mix with water to get the right shade(test on scrap wood first to get the desired tint) and cover with Truoil which has an Amber tint to it.
     

  13. Widerange Hum

    Widerange Hum Tele-Meister Gold Supporter

    Age:
    43
    342
    May 14, 2016
    San Diego, CA
    Plenty of good suggestions. Personally, I would:
    - seal with shellac
    - fill grain with crystalac
    - spray 3-4 coats of lacquer tinted with yellow and amber
    - spray burst edges, sides and back with amber/brown tinted lacquer to taste
    - put 3-4 coats of clear on top
     

  14. 4Teles

    4Teles Tele-Meister

    144
    Nov 5, 2006
    hampton beach nh
    No worries. I just didn't want to be hijacking a topic. My point is even on the same wood type gets different results. Tom Murphy told me the top dictates where you go with a burst. As far as using blue tint, original cherry bursts was red dye deepened with blue mixed in. The red dye quickly faded on Les Paul's built 58 thru half of 1960, that left just the blue colors and the clear coats naturally ambered.
     

  15. 4Teles

    4Teles Tele-Meister

    144
    Nov 5, 2006
    hampton beach nh
    Blue and Honey Amber mixed together. Bursted over a yellow base gives it a hint of green hue that is more visible in the 1st pic of the 2 guitars. The light amber clear coat over the whole top warms it up
     

  16. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Can i add some blue mixol to my honey amber and lacquer or do i need to be using blue transtint? That transtint adds up quick. I already need lemon yellow and brown mahogany.
     

  17. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Can i add some blue mixol to my honey amber and lacquer or do i need to be using blue transtint? That transtint adds up quick. I already need lemon yellow and brown mahogany.
     

  18. ndeli55

    ndeli55 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    33
    912
    May 12, 2008
    oklahoma
    Mixol is opaque, yes? If so I'd used a tint and not a pigment
     

  19. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Mixol is a pigment, which given enough will make an opaque.
    I have been messing around today a little bit.

    I torched some pine and then sanded it flat. Followed by some sanding sealer on one and some garnet shellac on the other. 1507496803107.jpg

    Then i sanded that back and shot a layer of clear. On the board with the shellac, i shot a coat of ambered clear.
    On the other board i sprayed some cherry red/mahoganny mohawk spray paint into a mixture of tobacco brown and honey amber lacquer. After a couple of coats of that, i added 2 drops of blue into the mix and started the edges. 1507496834572.jpg 1507496850962.jpg

    I am playing with the idea of torching the back and sides, but not the top. Then spraying the back and sides with the brown mahogany mixture and fading it to the front. Just want to see what the difference will be between a yellow center and an amber center.
    Also want to figure out a way to bring up the figure of the pine on the front without torching it. I think i could use shellac. Either clear with a touch of brown or the garnet with a little blue added.

    Many thanks to everyones help. Would have never thought to use blue.
     

    Attached Files:


  20. sleazy pot pie

    sleazy pot pie Tele-Holic

    643
    May 31, 2014
    austin
    Not sure why that last picture ended up in there twice.
     

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