Can someone please explain to me what just went on here?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by EsquireOK, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. 1955

    1955 Poster Extraordinaire

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    For a little while as a kid I lived in a well-to-do neighborhood. I didn’t have money, but I had ingenuity.

    All the other kids had so many expensive things that they didn’t value what they had.

    I would trade them one of my ninja throwing stars for something that had much more monetary value.

    Their Mom would be knocking on my door the next night demanding I give back whatever it was.

    So there I was with my throwing star again.

    I finally lost it in ivy trying to throw it into a pine tree.

    I didn’t think I understood then the entire charade of buying and selling and all of it’s bizarre rules, but I had it down pretty good.

    Nowadays I buy or sell what I need as quickly as possible so that I can continue my crusade.

    I am the Ivy Ninja and I wonder what happened to the world?
     
  2. Shuster

    Shuster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    In a nut shell, you were being a major pain in the arseo_O
     
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  3. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

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    After anyone says this, I always want to ask where they got their screen name from, but I already know.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    You were victimized....plain and simple....VICTIMIZED!! Your needling, agenda driven emails played absolutely no role in his response.....you were simply VICTIMIZED by a bad bad person and should report it immediately to a guitar forum!!!
     
  5. flathd

    flathd Poster Extraordinaire

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    That's a little harsh.

    Here's how I'll usually handle a "difficult" customer...

    1st reply - No, but thanks for the offer.
    2nd reply- No Thank You, sir.
    3rd reply - The price just doubled.
    4th reply - Suggest G.C. purchase.
    5th reply - Restraining Order filed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  6. Chester Burnett

    Chester Burnett Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    I wouldn't want to sell to this buyer. Seller was a tool but buyer was out of line. No high ground to be had here.
     
  7. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Well, I thought I was kind of an a-hole as a seller. At least this thread shows me that I'm actually easy breezy compared to many. I never would have got upset with someone doing what I did...and that's how I try to guide my actions. I get annoyed when people respond to FIRM ads with offers of 50 percent of asking price...and I simply ignore e-mails that I think are from an idiot or a P.I.T.A. I respect you all's input, whatever your opinions may be. I didn't start this thread to be reassured, affirmed, and coddled, and I know this Website, and any Internet forum, is full of guys dishing it out left and right. One needs to develop a thick skin to frequent these places. No biggie. I genuinely didn't know why anyone would have got upset...because I would not have even come close, myself.

    I've been buying (and occasionally selling) guitars online since about '96 or '97. As I said, I always talk to buyers before biting, and almost always get a price reduction as a result. I was just following my standard M.O. I also don't think there's anything "wrong" or "unacceptable" about starting a conversation about price with a seller who has not included a Make Offer feature. Sometimes an item has been posted for a few rounds, and the buyer might have forgot about it, or not considered that they could reduce the price or add a Make Offer button. It's worth asking IME. Usually what happens is that we discuss things a bit, agree on a price, and then they send me an individualized offer within the exchange. I've never encountered a negative reaction. Frustrating sometimes (on my part), but never huffy or upset like this guy got. Also, me not getting my offers accepted doesn't always mean I don't buy the item. Hell, on this one, we were within $94 of a deal...but something about him rubbed me the wrong way, so I didn't feel I should close the gap just for this particular dude. If he had not been such a used car salesmen, I would have just said what the heck and gone for it.

    I agree now that my backing out response was composed in an annoyed state, in response to his overall aggressive, high-pressure approach and dubious claims throughout. That probably came through without my specifically intending it. His last comment that he couldn't sell it for less than it was "worth" just compelled me to point him at actual average sales. It wasn't necessary, but it's what I would have said in a "real" conversation, without expecting it to piss anyone off.

    I also think the buyer's shipping price was out of line with the norm when buying a guitar online. Part of why I asked about him waiving it if I agreed to pay his asking price. Again, worth a question, and if he says no, then that's what he says; but ya haft to ask to find out. Too much is being read into this by many folks here, IMO.

    At no point did I ever think that I was "entitled" to average selling price from the seller. I simply tried to get some dough knocked off; S.O.P. IME/IMO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  8. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Why didn't you just buy it from guitar center?
    They had the price and the shipping you wanted.
     
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  9. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    This point has been asked a few times.

    The answer is, I still might. But the purchase of this guitar was never pressing for me. I just kind of wanted it, and saw that prices had come way down.

    And to be more specific, his is a plain top, by some fluke...which I highly prefer. That's why I was willing to pay more.

    I also hate G.C. with force...but I will patronize them rarely when their price simply cannot be touched.

    If I go for one of these soon, it will probably be a G.C. one, just to see what happens.
     
  10. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    Your S.O.P. suggests that bartering is an essential element for your buying satisfaction. The fact that you're still yammering about it reinforces this. Transactions don't have to be conquests - some folks just want to try to sell their goods at their price, and move on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  11. Shuster

    Shuster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    :lol::lol:
     
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  12. cnlbb

    cnlbb Tele-Afflicted

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    I haven't read much beyond the first page, but every now and then you start to negotiate and realize that there's a chance you might spend the next week in an online debate over if you need to further discount a guitar $400 for what might be imagined shipping damage and a refusal to just have the guitar sent back for a refund. In those scenarios, you back you, and perhaps you're wrong perhaps it's just a person looking to get the best deal they can but you've already worked 65 hours this week trying to keep your shop afloat and this one doesn't feel good.
     
  13. Strato50

    Strato50 Tele-Afflicted

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    Take it easy greasy....you got a long way to slide.
     
  14. tone57

    tone57 Tele-Meister

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    Maybe i'm missing something critical here, but i just looked at 'Gibson Player Plus" on Reverb and Chicago Music Exchange.

    There were only two listed at or below $1350 and even Stratosphere was selling Stripped / gutted ones for $1100.

    https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=gibson player plus&sort=price|asc

    CME want's $2,000 for theirs, so what is the deal here?

    https://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/search?query=gibson+player+plus


    I can see that Esquire has been here longer than i have and posted a lot more than me ( i took a couple years off ),
    so i am more than willing to cut him slack over it, but even $1450 only gets you 3 listed as "mint"??


    Am i missing a significant component to the issue?
     
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  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    When I did high end renovation work, I would not take me on as a customer.

    It was clear that I was not suited to working for people who were tight on money, and that people who were tight on money did not want the likes of me working on their homes.

    At the same time, people with significant wealth liked having me work on their homes, and I liked working for people who could afford me.

    Same with buying and selling gear.
    If I'm selling, I wouldn't buy what I sell for the price I ask, because I'm too damn cheap and will pass on the exact thing I want if the price is wrong.
    For some reason I have to feel I'm getting a good deal.

    Actually on very rare occasions I will pay fair market for something if it's really har to find and I just gotta have it now. But that's maybe every five years.
    The rest of the time, if I love a $1300 item and will only pay $1200, I go without it.

    I gotta say though, IMO the better sample of a guitar is well worth 25% more than the less good sample. I'm still cheap though, even if it's the best one I ever saw.

    Niggling over money is a drag.
     
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  16. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    The missing ingredient is Guitar Center's current $1,200 price for brand new ones, and three completed Reverb listings in the two days before the exchanges, that averaged at $1,200 for mint condition used examples. These things informed what I thought I might be able to talk him down to.

    Again, I don't think those things entitle me to the same price as a matter of course. I wasn't attempting to force him to sell it to me at a certain price. I just asked for it once, then asked for free shipping once, and when I didn't get either, I said no thanks, and here is why.

    From most other sellers, I would have inched up to what he wanted, just for the fact that it was a plain top (maybe the only one ever made, as they are spec'd as flame tops). But I sure as hell am gonna try first, as I always do, be it a guitar, a car, an old pair of jeans, etc. The reason I just couldn't go that extra $94 was his generally intense attitude, and that the bizarre false statements he had made throughout finally just stacked up high enough. If it had been the harsh attitude + a good price, I would have dealt with him. But not the harsh attitude plus a price $150 above what I could get a brand new one for at this moment, with warranty and easy and free returns if there is an issue. I just wanted out at that point...and he basically responded to me softly firing him by saying, "No, I fire you...even harder!" I thought it was a rather overreactive and angry response.

    At any rate, it isn't as if I am all hot for this guitar and have to have it now. I came across it by accident and liked the white binding and P90s. Lord knows I don't need it!
     
  17. esseff

    esseff Tele-Holic

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    The seller came across as reasonable to me. He stated his case quite clearly in the initial communications and had it been me (the enquirer), I think I'd have let the negotiation drop.
    Guitars are like buses, another one will be along soon. Unless you live in Nepal. :)
     
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  18. Flyboy

    Flyboy Tele-Meister

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    If you really want the guitar, pay the guy's price. Or get someone to do it for you if he won't deal with you.
     
  19. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I agree. Fast forward to something going wrong with the deal and you have to contact him to get a problem resolved.

    He then becomes your worst nightmare!

    Smile and wave; walk away.

    :) Peter
     
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  20. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    This goes waaaaaay deeper than this transaction/non-transaction.

    People have said “one reply too much” regarding your interaction with the seller, but think about how many words you have typed in response to those comments.

    It’s not worth it, and hasn’t ever been worth it in business.

    Move.

    On.

    Whatever the hell you were trying to buy? ( I don’t even care what it was - And it’s not important)

    Have you gotten one at the price you wanted?

    If not maybe because you’ve wasted time doing all this .

     
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