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Can I move bridge to prevent neck dive?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Honza992, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. richa

    richa Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Apr 23, 2016
    Washington
    I don't know if it solves a problem you will really have but hey - if you're ok with the way it looks and it reduces the risk you have in mind then it seems like it can't really hurt. One thing I do know - every minute of your daughter being the age where daddy is awesome is worth a thousand opinions. Get goin' already! :)
     
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  2. jvin248

    jvin248 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    .

    I needed to make a couple of sketches to keep the path here...
    I have seen guitars designed up like a bass with the bridge closer to the heel. You loose fret access (but an acoustic guitar has the same problem). I ghosted the original body behind this one. Body attaches as the 11th fret instead of the 16th. It makes for a compact guitar. If you like to play a lot of leads and that high register then you'll be complaining. There are some travel electrics that look like this (but with a carved body).

    deepbridgeTele.JPG

    As far as standing, you want to compare where the strap buttons are at, and I compared the Tele to a classic SG - the neck-diver guitar (I matched the scale length bridge to nut on these). Very evident how the SG has a lot of mass extending beyond that front strap button. I like to also pull your attention to how the bridge moves forward from a Tele to an SG, and the 22nd fret moves *a lot* further. Plus the nut moves a lot. An SG almost makes you sit beside yourself to play it, in a manner.



    TeleSG-Strap Hanging.JPG

    I once did a similar stack with many guitar models and manufacturers and the Tele tends to tuck the action back toward the player in more ways than one. Nuances that reveal good guitar design, the first time out, for that crew in the 50s. I like the SG but it's always had that look and feel of a committee guitar tasked with designing something to beat the Tele and Strat without Les Paul.

    .
     
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  3. Mr Green Genes

    Mr Green Genes Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 23, 2016
    MI
    - You like your bass at 45 degrees above horizontal. A telecaster is not a bass, the scale length is about 9 inches shorter, the playing technique is different, and the hand positioning is different for both hands (by your own admission, you're playing roots and fifths on bass, and don't know how to play chords).

    Once you learn a few barre chords, you'll have a better idea of what angle is most comfortable for you. Until then, it makes no sense to try to reinvent the wheel in a vain attempt to correct a problem that's not there.

    - Fender has been making Telecasters since 1950. Leo Fender and Doc Kaufmann made the first prototype in 1943. They've made many tweaks, adjustments and revisions over the last 70 years. The Telecaster has countless devoted fans, and hundreds of professional musicians have built their careers on it. Fender has sought out the feedback and input of many of those professional guitarists in search of ways to improve on the design.

    While it's possible that you can redesign an instrument you can't even play and make improvements that have eluded the professionals for the entire history of the electric guitar, the smart money is on the Fender design.

    My best advice would be to pick up an inexpensive used Squier and learn to play the instrument before you do anything else.
     

  4. Mr Green Genes

    Mr Green Genes Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 23, 2016
    MI
    Yes, in addition to taking off even more wood by adding Strat-style body contours and making the entire body thinner.

    If I'm reading you correctly, that would also push the strap button farther back. I think a better solution (hypothetically speaking- I still think we're trying to correct a problem that doesn't exist-) would be to either make the hips a little wider or add a lead plug somewhere close to the end pin.

    Another option might be to make the entire body a bit thicker, rather than making it thinner.

    As others pointed out, the thinner body also presents problems with the control cavity route.
     

  5. reddesert

    reddesert Tele-Meister

    149
    Jul 19, 2016
    AZ
    Nitpick: the original '51 Fender Precision Bass has a double cutaway body with the extended upper horn for better balance. It had a slab body with no contours, but other than that, it's not like a Tele. Even the Fender "Telecaster Bass" from the 1960s has the double cutaway. As far as I know the only one with a single cutaway tele-style body is the Squier Telecaster Bass that came out a few years ago. I agree with your suggestion to try out some guitars in the store.
     

  6. It's not a nitpick if you're right. I was just about to go back and edit my post. That Squier may be what I was thinking of. And I'm pretty sure I've seen what's his name from ZZ Too playing one with a Tele body...
    But yes, the early Tele bass had a strat like upper horn.
    Either way, moving the bridge back an inch or so would work despite introducing a few other issues to resolve.
     

  7. matmosphere

    matmosphere Tele-Meister

    258
    May 27, 2015
    District of Columbia
    Might I suggest you make a tele master or whatever they call it when you have a telecaster on a jazzmaster/jaguar body. The offset design would lend itself well to the angle you are looking for. That body style tends to rest at a 30-45 degree angle in my experience. And the combination actually looks pretty cool.

    As for why the bridge is in the middle of the body? I suspect it's a holdover from acoustic guitar design, where bridge placement makes a huge difference in sound reproduction and tone. Leo (and later Ted McCarty) probably figured nobody wanted an electric guitar that was drastically different looking than an acoustic.
     

  8. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2011
    Tucson
    The suggestion to find a good Squier to start on is a good one. The Squier Telecaster Standard is a great guitar and can often be found in the $100 range in the classifieds. Sounds like you have the skills to correct any issues you may find like fret sprout, etc.
    When you are ready to build your own, if you are using (NON swamp) ash, a normal tele body will be 6.5 to 7.5 pounds. You said you plan to make it thinner and carved, so you'll lose some weight there, but bottom line, that'll counter any neck dive.
    Search these forums and download the 24 3/4" Tele conversion neck diagram and use that for your neck instead of a 25.5". Use vintage style tuners and a single rod traditional truss rod and you will be good to go. No need to redesign the body.

    Cheers,
    Rex
     

  9. Mr Green Genes

    Mr Green Genes Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 23, 2016
    MI
    The Precision Bass was designed in 1950, at the same time as the Telecaster. The P-Bass has the bridge right down at the very edge of the body by the end pin, so the idea was obviously familiar to Leo Fender, and he clearly had no problem doing it if it made for a better design.

    0146100502_gtr_frt_001_nr.jpg
     

  10. Big-Tele

    Big-Tele Tele-Meister

    Age:
    68
    129
    Nov 4, 2015
    Melbourne Australia
    I have a tele style 12 string which is semi hollow and doesn't have a neck dive issue. That is with a longer headstock and 12 tuners with a lighter body. I can't see you having a real problem. As others have suggested, try a few teles in a shop and see how real the problem is.
     

  11. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2011
    Tucson
    I'd bet that doesn't sound much like a telecaster either, given that, playing normally, you'll be picking at around the 17th fret, and losing a lot of the twang from the bridge pickup.
    Just a thought.
    Rex
     
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  12. matmosphere

    matmosphere Tele-Meister

    258
    May 27, 2015
    District of Columbia
    I think the p-bass bridge (and the big upper horn) was a question of practicality, and basses are entirely different instruments. Electric basses descended from upright basses. They were obviously much larger and played vertically. They just weren't made to be played like a guitar.

    Leo obviously borrowed design cues from guitars but stuck with a longer scale and made sure everything was very functional. There were very few electric basses back the and none were successful until the pbass.
     

  13. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    58
    Mar 16, 2003
    Arlington, VA

    Why not just make a shorter neck? Those high frets will be only minimally playable
     
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  14. Mr Green Genes

    Mr Green Genes Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 23, 2016
    MI
    That's the point, exactly. The OP is a bassist who wants to learn guitar, and wants to customize a Telecaster with the bridge down by the end pin, without having tried it in its standard configuration, because that's what he likes on his bass guitar. A Telecaster is not a bass guitar. What applies to a bass guitar does not necessarily apply to a Telecaster.
     
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  15. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    58
    Mar 16, 2003
    Arlington, VA
    [​IMG]

    What I mean by make the neck shorter is keep the bridge where it is in the picture, and cut the neck off at the 15th fret, or maybe the 17. Then the pickguard and the neck pickup would be in more or less the usual place. You'd need to flatten the neck, and it would be a bit narrow for the pocket, and you'd have a much more normal "picking range" for your right hand.

    sort of like so

    test3.jpg

    PS IM still going with "you are overthinking this and neck dive will not be a problem
     

  16. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    There are so many things wrong with this idea that I'm not even going to bother listing them.
     
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  17. RickyRicardo

    RickyRicardo Friend of Leo's

    Mar 27, 2012
    Calgary, Alberta
    That's for sure.
     
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  18. Mad Kiwi

    Mad Kiwi Tele-Afflicted

    OP, you are barking up the wrong tree as per many other people trying to be polite are saying.

    Go to a guitar shop and put one on your shoulder, a bass is no way near a guitar in weight balance and style of playing. I play and have both.

    You are on the wrong track.

    THOUGH, your intentions are admirable! (we have a 2 year old girl so I know exactly where your coming from< dancing around the lounge to Elvis Live will not last! :) )
     
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  19. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

    That looks like a turtle pulling its neck in.
     
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