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Brown Bottle ( mix content )

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by suthol, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Here's version 3c 24 bit wav ( versions numbered in hexadecimal )

    The latest version, guitar intro & solo rerecorded, new vocal track with a different mic ( Audio Technica ATM 710 ) & strings added to bridge + more attention to automation of levels

    Still have to add extra drum fills and cymbals, probably need to look at the musical structure of the string parts

     
  2. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    just curious, do you guys record at soft volumes?

    In the middle part, 1:54 to 2:15.....the lyrical content is calling out
    for a heavy handed emotional outburst of sort. Please don't deny us that!

    Then, when that middle part ends, the entire song
    will fall back into place with the cool vibe guitar, chorus and verse.
    A nice little ride if you can get behind it.

    I really like the background vocals too, and the organ swells.

    The main vocals could be EQ'd to blossom in the mid section a touch more.

    Listening to the song, I'm thinking Eric Burdon.
     
  3. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Not sure about the background vocals ;) as there is only a single track with a bit of slapback delay with dry at 0 and the wet at -16

    Thanks for the comments Stu, I had the vocal input level riding around -6 and peaking at about -3 and Max went reasonably hard at that section "Please don't take me there etc" but backed off the mic a bit because that's where it really distorted in the cut linked in the first post. I still have all my project files as I save incrementally so I'll see if the second bridge from the first attempt is salvagable enough to go into service in this later recording.

    With the EQ on the vocal set flat there is quite a boom at 300 and a metallic spike at around 2.5K so I'm walking a fine line in that area I might try a bit of multiband compression to work around those areas and see how it goes.

    The bridge section has the Sonivox Orchestral Strings behind it at Max's request after hearing them in Gathering Of Memories that I posted here a few months ago and have since pulled from SC, I'll push the vocal a bit further forward in the bridge and see where it ends up.

    As ever thanks for the input, I sincerely hope that the other newbies are getting as much from this as I am and hopefully will encourage them to put stuff up as well.
     
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  5. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    Am I hearing things again?

    I could have sworn there was some
    vocal reinforcement going on.

    I'll play it again in the morning.
     
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  6. w3stie

    w3stie Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 19, 2010
    Brisbane
    It's very hard to put stuff up, as you're putting your stuff out there ready to be pulled to bits! It's also difficult to add comments, because you never know how your feedback is going to be received. Plus of course, it's all just opinion and, to some extent, personal taste.

    But it's good reading all the feedback. I actually just got Woody's line keep swinging the hammer. I was thinking about a comment made by film composer Alan Menken that you shouldn't get too attached to a song; that people will like it or not, so you just keep on writing. And I thought that's what Woody is talking about. Keep on going and don't get hung up. At least that's what I thought it meant ;)
     
  7. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks Rob, being a rank amateur at this mixing caper I'm looking for constructive comment I'm a big boy and my feelings won't suffer.

    I try to implement to tips that come from post to post and hope each successive mix is an improvement.

    As for swingin that hammer, the way I see it is keep hammering away until it's in proper shape.

    Max and Bob talk about being happy to have the songs recorded for their families and in the next breath want commercial release so what may have been good enough is not good enough
     
  8. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    In this mix, the organ, lead guitar and strings establish a nice baseline, but the low end has gone south and the acoustic has faded along with the kick and the bottom on the bass. (The strings add a nice boost to the bridge — good production technique!) Think you've gotten your lead guitar dialed in too. I would try to tweak rhythm section levels to the baseline established at the intro/first verse and go from there.

    The darker vocal sounds more appropriate, but to me, the previous vocal take was a better performance. Are you sure this is your keeper vocal? It's hard to hear really, as the vocal isn't quite riding the crest of the mix. ... The big dynamic at the bridge might benefit from a doubled vocal line — track it twice and pan them hard left and right, using the same compressor and reverb/delay settings on both. It'd really add some drama without driving your levels up too high. More production technique; it either works or not, only one way to find out!

    Swinging the hammer — Rob nails the forest element, Dave the trees. My notion works on both the macrocosm and the microcosm: Never stop. Stay in relentless motion like a shark. Whether it's your production career path or one specific project, there will be times when you're exhausted, in a sense, but it only takes one sling of the hammer to start a rally. Roll on, drive a golden spike for a finished project and roll on into the next one.

    Mixing is hard! But getting bounced around here (RIP) was a great way to learn to look at my work from many viewpoints. If you post your mix and weather the storm, you can be confident your finished project is a solid product to the best of your current ability.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    suthol likes this.
  9. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks Woody, I'll try those tips this morning but will only get about an hour and then the boss and I are out of here until Monday night so probably not much more until Tuesday
     
  10. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    This song keeps pulling me back. I still think the electric guitar is dialed in; the rest is up for grabs. ... You mentioned that Max et al. may be setting their caps toward commercial release. You really need to do something about the drums if you're going that route. Take up a collection and get something like EZDrummer or the like. You will bonk yourself in the forehead when you find out how quick and easy it is to write good tracks.

    You guys plus other regional talents like Wes the steelman, We$tie, Hoodie and all those other hoodlums are a pretty formidable talent pool. If you could get some project studio interaction going, you could raise all sorts of hell Down Under. Collaboration is the name of the game.
     
  11. w3stie

    w3stie Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 19, 2010
    Brisbane
    I second woody's drums suggestion. I know you're on a budget Dave, but the single best thing in Logic Pro, to me at least, is the drummer. I'm not suggesting get logic but ezdrummer or some other program for quickly laying down a groove.

    I've found the ability to easily set up or change a drum pattern invaluable in composing and also getting un-stuck in a song. I've said it before, the drummer really is the foundation of a band / track.

    My 2c ;)
     
  12. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Logic means Mac and that's not budget
     
  13. paratus

    paratus Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

    Dec 2, 2010
    Michigan
    Nothing wrong with EZ Drummer. Toontracks has it on sale from time to time. I picked up Superior Drummer for $99 a while back.
     
  14. Skub

    Skub Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Jul 28, 2010
    N.Ireland
    Hey Dave,I'm a novice on the sound/mix/master front,so all I'm doing is affording you a set of fresh ears to further confuse the issue/give insight! I haven't read any of the posts from folk who actually know $h1t,so take it all with a hefty pinch of sodium chloride.

    Playing the last soundcloud link,The intro electric is way higher than it needs to be,it'll sound more integrated sitting lower in the mix to my old ears.

    Overall the song has a vibe of 'House of the Rising sun and Sister Morphine,it communicates that craving and overriding need. Soundwise,it's not far away from a belter.

    I hope some of that ramble helps Dave.
     
  15. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    Skub, my take was the reverse: After quite a few takes, the guitar is finally up to snuff at a decent level, but the rest, including the vocal, has all faded back. I've lost count, but I've heard six or seven versions of this song, and each one is a different world.

    Backstory
    : Dave and I have been working at getting his mixing mojo working over the course of several projects. His trip is a combination of "Blues Brothers" and "Bucket List" — getting the band back together late in life to record what they've created over the years.

    These guys had some solid success in Oz back in the day, but now they're ... oh, about my age ... YIKES! :eek: At any rate, Dave stoked the studio forge this year and is swinging the hammer as it were, in this his rookie season. :cool:

    Dave, I think this tune will be your breakthrough once you get past the slings and arrows. Keep ... yeah, that hammer thang. That's the cool thing about digital, you get as many tries as you want! :D
     
    Skub likes this.
  16. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    Yes, consistency is the key factor here in recording.
    One of the reasons why archiving and detailed notes can
    be both a chore and a lifesaver.

    Housekeeping can be fun..... guess what! I just found
    that I have a tube phono preamp I just discovered
    in a pile of unused rack gear!

    Time to dust off the old vinyl and spin some Grassroots!

    Some of the issues I hear within this thread is due to
    maybe remixing things when something new is introduced.
    It's okay to try and find the song's sonic boundaries by
    mixing and listening and learning.

    You need to know what sounds good in your studio,
    how that sound was achieved, and how it sounds
    compared with commercial recordings and in other
    sound systems besides your own.

    Some guys have enormous recording chains that never waiver
    and with very few means to deviate from "that sound".

    Once you have "that sound" for yourself, then it will always
    be there for you. One less mountain to climb and you can
    enjoy the process even more with your friends if that's
    even possible.

    Sounds like everyone involved is having a great time!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  17. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks again for the thoughts on where the song is at, I am mucking around with a remix based on the most recent hints/comments.

    This morning is the first time I have been back at the PC since I posted version 3c at the top of this page.

    Among other things I have spent some time digging into Drummicá and have found flexibility that I didn't know was there, not only is there a very large library of beats and patterns but there applicable to all of those are an equally large number of playing styles ( metal / rock / funk / disco / RnB etc ) that can be applied to the beats.

    I have also worked out how to break each of the drums out to separate channels to manipulate the mix better, and also in the options area there are MIDI mappings for EZDrummer, BFD, Addictive Drums & Superior Drummer as well as GM ( default ) & two V Drums options.

    The world appears to be my oyster just got to crack the final pieces and apply what I have found.

    The hammer is becoming a bit like grandpa's axe and still going strong :D

    Edited to add, EZDrummer is currently 139Euro
     
  18. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    Now you're diggin' where there's taters!
     
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  19. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Looks like the remix needs a remix, as you may have noted we retracked the vocal warm rather than hot to get around the distortion in the mic and now when I bring the bridge up to a suitable level I am getting distorted peaks.

    My inexperienced solution which I hope to be a move in the right direction is to set the mix peaks there and pull the rest down around it then bump the master up to get the level where it needs to be, rather than set the rhythm section levels and build up from there.
     
  20. paratus

    paratus Friend of Leo's Ad Free + Supporter

    Dec 2, 2010
    Michigan
    Bingo - Like Woodman alluded to, that's a real breakthrough for you, congrats!
     
  21. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    Rather than working in just level adjustment, maybe you can try working
    with the frequency arrangement of your tracks.

    It will give you a better listening balance too.

    The bass guitar has it's own set of frequencies and not much else occupy
    that same space. Same with kick drum, guitars, keys, horns, strings, vocals etc.

    Where there is freq overlap, that's when it becomes decision time and the
    real fun begins. Before pan controls there were mixing boards with a LCR switch
    which designated what side you wanted the instrument. Left, Center or Right.

    It took care of a lot of issues back then. You had vocals and bass guitar in the center,
    and everything else off to the sides. Easy peezey.

    Notice how guitars in The Beatles albums sound thin and uninviting?
    It's because they left room for the vocal frequencies to have their
    day in the sun. All the time. When you did hear a full sounding Beatles
    guitar, it was mainly in the fills and there were no vocals.

    They made excellent records that way. here's an example:
    Although not The Beatles, but they used the same structure.
     
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