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Brown Bottle ( mix content )

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by suthol, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Here is a piece written by my band mate Max Richards inspired by the Dm jam track I posted here a few days back.

    I think Max's voice overdrives the mic in a couple of places, I definitely feel it's the mic because the meters didn't go into the red so it's not distortion in the software and a limiter & volume automation doesn't seem to tame it.

    Do you think multiband compression might tame the rough spots ?if not what might.

    The mic is a Sennheiser MD 427 which is supposed to be a very good stage & recording mic and I'm wondering if it might be a bit too sensitive and a Shure or Electro Voice of some sort might be better, Bob has some PG57s but they don't get a very good wrap compared to the SM57 which we don't have and Max has EV stage mics but I'm not sure which ones.

    Given that the three of us are all geezers on pensions going out and buying expensive mics is not an option

     

  2. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Recorded in Reaper using native plugins with the exception of the drums which are the Sennheiser Drummica and the organ which is the AZR3 VST1.

    Guitar is a Squier CV Thinline with Blackguard spec pups
     

  3. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    I'm wondering if it's the Senn or the preamp that's distorting. You're right, it doesn't sound like a digital clip. If you recorded with the EQ flat, what you're hearing may be simply the presence peak on the 427 (they were designed for mainly live use IIRC). Not much low end on that vocal at all. You could experiment with other mikes (give those EVs a listen!), but attention to technique is a must with broad dynamics like this vocal has. Have Max watch his distance on those power parts. He does a great job overall.

    Man, multiband compression is a slippery slope. I'd try some EQ and channel compression. Look for vocal harshness between 3K and 3.5K, and try to balance that out with some warmth by boosting the 250 Hz range — but not so much it gets muddy. ... Set your compressor so it really clamps down on the peaks, maybe as much as -6 dB, but leaves the soft parts alone for the most part.

    The intro guitar sticks out a little, but blends in OK at the instrumental break. Acoustic rhythm is getting washed away, you could pull the organ back a coupla dB or bring up the guitar (the vocal is pretty forward). ... Very cool song, limber up that hammer arm!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017

  4. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks Woody I'll give it a shot in the morning and see how it goes, I'll also have another look at the mix balance.

    We recorded straight into the mixer with everything flat and the levels were set to peak at -6, I'll get Max to bring his EV mics on Wednesday night and do another take or two regardless.

    The sound and feel we are looking for is a whiskey soaked smokey nightclub so the guitar parts probably be a sax
     

  5. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    I've heard some pretty soulful guitar in whiskey-soaked smoky nightclubs too! :cool:
     

  6. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Looks like some extra EQ around 3K with a wider curve has tamed those peaks and I ramped the compression up from 2.5 -> 4:1 and the vocal is much better.

    Rhythm parts up, intro down and the main body of the organ parts pulled back a tad and the fast leslie part on the A7 pushed a bit further forward.

    Have to go out for a few hours but will render and repost when I get back in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

  7. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Here's the remix, I think it's better but I still worry a bit about the vocal also a bit of a hickup with the organ at the end which is an easy fix.

    In another lifetime 1965 - 85 Max was the lead singer in a very successful recording band that released a number of successful albums and worked professionally during that period so I hope he is thinking about mic technique but we will have a chat about it tomorrow night

     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

  8. w3stie

    w3stie Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 19, 2010
    Brisbane
    Vocals sounding a lot tighter in that last cut Dave. Agree with Woody about the lead guitar, it sounds too thin and fizzy. Maybe try applying the same EQ as the vocal to the guitar? Might help it blend in a little.
     

  9. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    I'll give that a whirl and see how it comes out, may also redo it using the Strat with the SD stacked HBs and see how that sounds.
     

  10. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    Better instrumental balance ... but the vocal still sticks way out in the loud parts. Some volume automation would do the trick. You're starting to get the tone (EQ) dialed in on it, but I wouldn't rule out retracking it with a warmer-sounding mike. Max is a fine singer, but his voice and that 427 don't match up well.
     

  11. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks for the EQ tips Woody we probably will retrack with one of his EV mics tomorrow night.

    @ w3stie I have gone through 4 guitars looking for a different sound for the intro Tele w/HBs, Strat, Shergold and the trusty Thinline that was used in the first instance and after shuffling through countless pickup combinations finished up with the Thinline on the front pickup with the fuzz backed way down, I'll redo the solo tomorrow morning when I am more awake and post the results after we have retracked the vocal
     

  12. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Finished up retracking the guitar parts with the amp mic'd running an AC30 simulation and did a bit more work on the balance and moved a couple of organ parts around for a bit more colour.

    I know Soundcloud has a mind of it's own but I have uploaded a 24 bit wav to hopefully provide better quality

     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

  13. w3stie

    w3stie Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 19, 2010
    Brisbane
    It's coming together nicely Dave. To my ears the guitar part is still standing out a little too much from the rest of the mix - even though it is meant to be a lead instrument it sounds a little too bright to my ears. Possibly roll off the highs, add wah or even play it down an octave. It's a nice part - unusual - sounds like it's in D locrian mode?
     

  14. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    Okay, so i only listened to the last version of what you did.
    Nice and eerie sounding....but there's no cymbals in the whole song!
    I want to hear a cymbal crash between verses and in some parts that
    need reference. Also, the middle part might need a ride cymbal swing
    to shore it up with the rest of the song.

    The vocals have too much delay on the entire track. Tame it.
    One trick is to clone the vocal track and edit the clip so that only the
    words that need echo are displayed and given some reverb or delay treatment.
    It seems to take away from the haunting rhythm of the song.

    I know you are just getting your feet wet with digital recording, but Woody
    is correct in telling you to learn track automation. hint hint.
    It's not rocket science, but it is brain surgery!
    You'll make your tracks sizzle the more you engage the tools available!

    Love the song!
     

  15. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    Thanks for taking the time to listen and advise Stu, I knew still had to add to the percussion with fills etc Max and I discussed it last weekend

    As for the automation stuff I am still as green as grass in this area but working my way in

    ps. Listening to the latest only was a good move :)
     

  16. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    i will get to listen to the first ones soon to give me some perspective.
     

  17. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    It's evened out nicely, leaps and bounds since the first mix. Pulling back the vocal has helped the overall situation because the loud parts aren't sticking out aggressively, but you're losing some impact from the soft parts — another case for automation! You're on the right track, though ... just keep zeroing in on it.
     

  18. suthol

    suthol Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 15, 2010
    Sydney - Australia
    We did three new vocal takes with three different mics tonight, I would have liked to do another with the 427 because it is a better mic than the other three and Max paid more attention to mic technique this time.

    We are pretty happy with the first of the three takes and I think I can do a lot with it.
     

  19. woodman

    woodman Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    71
    Nov 28, 2004
    Mint Hill, NC
    Cool! ... Forgot to mention in my last take, uploading as a WAV really paid off. Instead of being mangled by Soundcloud transcoding and your MP3 conversion, your audio only gets mangled once!
     
    suthol likes this.

  20. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2013
    California
    In my experience, the first takes are usually the gems
    That sparkle the brightest.

    I would like to hear the drums and bass guitar
    combination take a prominent roll in this
    hypnotic tune.

    Funny thing to listen to, but organ in popular
    60's music had Leslie shimmer but sometimes
    it only came out of one channel!

    Their compensation was to add reverb to the other side!
    Just a pasing thought with my morning coffee.
    Good hard work always pays off, and you guys
    are building railroads, not just tracks.
     

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