Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by voodoo_idol, Jul 23, 2012.
Sorry...help me out...
I am the walrus?
And since I'm here....I should say that I'm not a big TV guy....not into fiction....haven't read a work of fiction since 1983.
I've only seen a dozen or so episodes of BB...seasons 1& 2....love the idea of it....will start at the beginning someday.
Sorry I watched the ending.
I've been watching some of the earlier episodes since the finale. Jesse actually shows signs of intelligence right from the beginning. He even outsmarts Walt on occasion. It's just that a lot of his actions/motivations are not thought out at all and cause him to make stupid mistakes. Just an observation.
On and unrelated topic, did anyone watch 'talking bad'? It's the discussion show that aired after breaking bad. In the final one Vince Gilligan said that Walt went back to uncle Jack's compound to kill everybody, including Jesse. I'm going to argue with the creator himself and say Walt didn't intend to kill Jesse. He didn't have it in him to do it himself and he still loved Jesse as a son despite everything that went down between the two. Once he decided to go back to ABQ to make everthing right (or as right as possible) he had already decided to try to save Jesse. I think Vince just meant that is what the audience was supposed to believe up until the last part of the episode.
This was probably obvious for some but I also realized that Hank's brewing was a symbol for the relatively benign substance he created in comparison to Walt's and inturn a reflection of each person's character. In that same vein, Marie's shoplifting and lying should compared/contrasted with the wrong that Skyler was capable of.
Did anyone notice that a bit of Mike had rubbed off on Walt when he said: "If we're going to go that way Elliot, you're going to need a bigger knife."?
Finally, was it a good idea to tell Lydia that she had been poisoned? She had a couple more days to live, what if she retaliated against Walt's family? It was not a smart move and not what I think Walt would have or should have done.
Maybe he couldn't have pulled the trigger himself for a time, but Walt had already ordered a hit on Jesse.
Some people think Queen's song Bohemian Rhapsody is about Freddie Mercury's struggle with AIDS, even though Mercury has actually said the lyrics to that song are just “random rhyming nonsense” that were just written to fit the music.
At the end of the show I don't think there was anything left between Walt and Jesse at all aside from a shared relief that it's all over. No friendship, no mentor, no father, nothing.
He explains his bitterness toward Gretchen and Elliot in the episode Peekaboo, number 6 of season 2, about 30 minutes in.
He says to Gretchen: "you wave your magic check book around like some magic wand that is going to make me forget how you and Elliot, you and Elliot, CUT ME OUT!.
Gretchen: "That can't be how you see it."
Walt: "it was my hard work, my research, and you and Elliot made millions off of it.
Gretchen: You left me
Walt: "That's your excuse? To build your little empire on my work.?"
Gretchen: "I feel so sorry for you."
Walt: "(expletive) you!!!"
I would agree with this for the last several episodes up until the finale. Walt didn't say it but he gave Jesse a long "I'm sorry" look there at the very end. Not to mention shielding Jesse with his own body from bullets. Yes, maybe he needed to jump on Jesse to be able to dodge the bullets himself but it was clear IMO that he was protecting him. Vince Gilligan even said himself that Walt decided to save Jesse in the end. What I'm saying is that I think Walt planned it from the time he decided to go home.
Shut the (bleep) up Donny!
Well, I guess we see things from different points in the paradigm. I totally accept what ou are saying. I just believe that a person deriving pleasure from helping someone in need isn't in and of itself a totally selfish act.
If you look through history there are countless examples of people who have given their lives in the behalf of others. Take Michael Monsoor. Navy Seal in Iraq. Gets in a firefight, someone tosses a grenade into their position, and he could have very easily gotten away without harm, but instead he dives on the grenade taking 90% of the blast. Where was his reward for this act? He's dead. Yes he received the Medal of Honor, but I doubt that at that moment of the choice between selfish-concern-"Ah the heck with them, at least I'll be all right-or empathy and self-sacrifice-"Holy Smith there's a live grenade, I need to protect my team."
When he dove on the grenade he knew his chances of survival were almost nil. I would be willing to bet, that he wasn't thinking, "I'm gonna be a hero and get the medal of honor."
I understand what you are saying. Humanity is in and of itself alone on the planet and we live our lives catering to our wants and desires. This is true. But it is offly bleak. I guess I like to think that there are some of us out there that are pretty good, and are doing their best to fight those selfish urges and give and help others.
There is nothing wrong with receiving a sense of satisfaction in helping out a fellow traveler.
Basically the theory of survival of the fittest served it's purpose but it doesn't work very well today.
If some of those I gave the millions to ended up as meth heads that still doesn't negate the positive action of the gift. What they chose to do with the money was up to them, but I for my part have been of service to my fellow man.
This kind of logic can be taken to the absurd. I buy steaks for my wife and I for dinner. She chokes on the steak. Is that my fault for giving her the steak? Of course not, and there isn't a jury in the world that would convict someone of murder for such a scenario.
I dunno... I don't see it that way. When he was in the car with Pete and Badger he had a murderous look on his face when he suspected Jesse of teaming up with Jack.
In fact I'd have guessed Walt assumed Jesse to be dead up until that very moment.
Maybe Walt saved Jesse out of nothing more than a vague feeling of atonement for all of the ways he wronged him. Or maybe he did still think of him as a partner, despite what I think. I guess we can look at it a number of ways, sure.
Man it's like I'm doing some sort of character analysis in American Lit class all over again... dang, can I hide under the desk?
Good post, I see where you're coming from. He didn't have all the facts straight until he arrived. Walt could have just been unsure of what to do about Jesse. That is, until he saw him beaten and broken at Uncle Jack's place. I think he realized then that he had put Jesse there and had ruined Jesse's life in many ways and it was time to do right by him. Walt's ego and malice grew and grew throughout the series until the end when he saw things more clearly as he neared his own death.
I think Walt intended to kill Jesse... until he saw what Todd had done. Then he figured Jesse had paid enough for his "betrayal" and changed his plan on the fly.
from the film "the big lebowski" that is the moment when that character says, "Well, that is just your opinion man."
In a subsequent post you mention that you haven't watched much of the series and don't have much of a background in film and tv… which is, well, fine and no big deal… but as my civics teacher Mike Mikulics used to say, "gentlemen, ignorance is not recognized as a defense in my court."
This probably isn't you, but, sometimes folks will use their lack of a background in an area that is 'beneath' them as a way to prop up the importance of an opinion that may not be able to stand on its own.
as for imagination ruling (which I kind of agree with) why would you rate it so highly yet not read nor watch fiction since 1983? What happened in 1983 to turn you away from fiction?
The above made me think of this~
"Well I *said* ha ha..."
The thing about BrBa that is so on target for me, is how it detailed how people can be pretty much fine and upstanding, but they can also have well hidden major faults in their behavior or psyche. We've seen it again & again with political figures: Sure there are many cases of the sleazy types who finally get caught red-handed, but there's that minor percentage of them who are admired for excelling in their job, and it later turns out they had a bad habit involving expensive hookers (no names, please! ). Or some other bad compulsion which takes them down.
People have all manner of vices that drive them, as much as their toiling in their more mundane, more public selves. As a society, we love to see the mighty get their comeuppance, but it's evident we also like to see Honey BooBoo's mom be her slovenly self... But the folly of a Good Guy, and how it all spins wildly out of control, is eminently fascinating to all but the most jaded. It's why OJ Simpson's downfall held the nation's attention for several years, and it's one of the many reasons why BrBa has such a rapt, rabid following.
The devil, as they say, is in the details. And so it goes with our ongoing fascination.
Walt went into the compound with all intentions of killing Jessie also. He thought that Jessie had 'partnered' with Todd and his Uncle to continue to produce the 'blue' Once Walt saw Jessie he realized that wasn't the case, in fact Jessie was their prisoner/slave he changed his mind. I think Walt saved him from the machine gun so he could offer Jessie the chance to pull the trigger on Walt. Jessie didn't bite and realized Walt was hit/bleeding anyway so why fall into a final manipulation.
My 2 cents.
Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
In keeping with The Dude, here's Kenny Rogers introducing the band. How great was Badfinger for the finale?
Those guys could harmonize. Man that's good.
My take is that Walt had planned on killing Jesse since he thought that Jesse had partnered with the Neo Naz. When Jesse was brought up in chains looking terrible Walt knew that Jesse was a prisoner and then Walt had a change of heart and decided to save him from what was about to happen.
On the Grey Matter thing I don't think it's that Walt thought he was going on to bigger and better things. More like he bailed because he was chicken****.