Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Black Line Silverface? What's teh deal?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by noah330, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    I will pull it out later. Which ones are in this one?

    [​IMG]
     
    telemnemonics likes this.

  2. Can't read the codes on the speakers, but they look like alnico Jensen's. Guessing P12 something.. nice amp BTW
     
    noah330 likes this.

  3. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    Thanks! That one is a rare find but a great sounding box. I like the trem as well as on my old Vibroverb!
     

  4. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    Sounds like you're trying reeeaaallly hard to avoid the Blues daddy cork sniffer hat here, by writing about your vintage amp yet claiming you know nothing about it, while not even wanting to learn anything about it.

    Don't worry, be happy!
    It's OK to look at the speakers and read the codes to find out that they are CTS alnico or Utah ceramic or whatever.
    Nobody here is going to brand you a fool for knowing stuff about your vintage amp!
    Your associate who was all excited is not the result of knowing stuff!
    More a result of skimming forums for catch phrases.

    I think @Wally was suggesting that ownership of a vintage amp kind of requires a little knowledge to keep it working properly, and certainly a tech needs to know what circuit they are replacing parts in.
    Members here like Wally help other members out all the time with this kind of stuff, and a little knowledge might help you out at some point in the future if you need the amp fixed on short notice but can't use your regular amp tech.
    If a tech asks you how you want to proceed with a repair, where they suggest changing a spec in the process, wouldn't you want to have some clue as to what would be a good answer?
    Sadly, an awful lot of techs make changes due to ignorance, wrong parts on hand, trendy ideas, or owners misinformed requests.
    Sometimes a great sounding amp comes back from a repair and never really sounds good again. Unless the owner knows what they have and can find out what got changed by the recent tech botching job.
     
    coldengray likes this.

  5. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    No, I am interested in what it's all about but honestly I have to tell you that I tend to buy what I like. When I was a lad in 1988 I didn't really know anything about anything guitar related. I knew about a Fender Stratocaster and a Rickenbacker but that's about it.

    When I bought this box and the Gibson Les Paul that came with it I was excited. My dad had a Gibson J-45 from when he was in high school and that's what I learned to play on. I had never heard of a Les Paul at that time. I'm sure I had seen one but back then there was no Gibson dealer in my town or anything.

    When it comes to AB123 or speakers I just have never really spent that much time worrying about that aside from the basics. For example, I bought a bunch of the brown ones in 1995-2000 because I liked the tremolo and before that I would buy the silver ones because they were generally really cheap. Back then it was stay away if it has a master volume and if you can swing it buy a black one.

    I have a lot of gear but honestly I'm more of an arranger/writer/player than I am a collector. That's why I asked this question here, because someone came by and was very interested in the minutia of things and I was curious.

    I'll show the speakers and ticket later but I know just from owning this for almost 30 years that the speakers say Fender on them and have blue labels.

    Like I said, I've owned boxes that probably are more desirable and are def worth more but this one still holds up to everything. Kind of cool no matter how much it's worth/not worth.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    telemnemonics likes this.

  6. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    Here is the inside. Hope this helps crack the codes!

    [​IMG]
     
    telemnemonics likes this.

  7. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    Is it still open? We need close ups of the side of the board closest to the power transformer. That's where the PI and bias circuits are.

    A close up of what is in the upper right hand corner of the photo, as well as what is just out of the frame - the small bias board right behind the pilot light and the bias pot between that board and the main board.
     
    noah330 likes this.

  8. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    Looking at this again I think I see a 220k resistor going to the knob side of the cap farthest to the right on the board, which leads me to believe that it's the AA964 circuit.
     
    noah330 likes this.

  9. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    Is that
    Is that good or bad?
     

  10. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    AA964 is the last BF circuit I think, and does not have the mixed biasing that Wally is talking about. IMO this is good.
     
    noah330 likes this.

  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Great pic, Noah!
    Anyway, you have the 568 circuit in that amp...no matter what the tube chart says. there is a large sandcast resistor peeking into the upper right hand corner of your picture....that is part of the cathode biasing in that amp and tells us what it was....and still is. IF you like it, keep on playing it. There probably aren't very many of those circuits that still exist as they left the factory...just as most old Fenders get a bias voltage adjustment pot in small fashion when they left the factory with the bias balancing act. HEY, that fancy Showman head is not longer what it was when it left the factory, either, is it? IF HAD had done a custom job on your VR, it would no longer have that biasing scheme in it as one of the first and most basic changes, I am thinking...it would no longer be an AB568 circuit.
    Speakers...it is improbable with your amp being a post-May, 1968 amp that there are Jensens in it...but it could happen. IF so, it will say Jensen somewhere on that on a brown and gold label, iirc. IF not, the Jensen codes are on the edge of the frames....as they are in those Blue Jensens above. 220 is Jensen...the next digit is the last digit of the year and the last two digits are the week of that year. Then, another code will tell you what Jensen the speaker is....IF there are C10NS speakers there, that will read.."C10NS' followed by some other numbers. . IF the speakers are any other maker, it is likely that the code is under the label on the magnet. Some folks around here can identify speakers by looking at the frames.
    But....it really doesn't matter what they are as you note...you like them. Congrats....and I apologize for the info. hehehe.... Maybe next time someone is curious about your amps, you can tell them that that really doesn't matter to you and that you like it no matter what it is because it is just a tool to you. And....you won't have to bother showing that Dumble Custom label...becasue really that doesn't matter either, right? That will make those types of conversations much shorter....... Have a good one....
     
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  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Just thought I would show a circuit board picture that reveals somethings when someone is trying
    to exhibit a circuit. Out of curiosity, does anyone notice anything different and/or special about this one...

    BAssman cab, '63 Pro, 014.jpg BAssman cab, '63 Pro, 014.jpg BAssman cab, '63 Pro, 015.jpg
     
    noah330 likes this.

  13. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    ^ Trust this dude. I didn't see that sandcast resistor that Wally is talking about.
     
    noah330 likes this.

  14. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    Thanks for the info! The Dumble I'm assuming is different but I never opened it up TBH. I did send it back for servicing once a while back. It's a great sounding box. There are some videos from a Ventures tour of Japan circa '65/66 where you can hear these in action. Dr. D. built their Mosrite boxes as well!

    Couple one of those with a nice Mosrite and it has toan four dayz and playz like teh buttah!!11!!

    I printed out your response and am going to stick it in the back of there. Thanks again!

    Nokie Edwards!!! Like I said, I just always bought what I liked. Looking for a Mosrite in the late 80s/early 90s was tough!!!!



    [​IMG]
     
    gridlock likes this.

  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    Looks like someone with circuit OCD tidied up the wire routing.
    Very pretty!
    Quiet too I'd bet.
    I love good looking amp guts and I'm not ashamed to admit it!
    Some of my favorite sounding amps looked pretty sloppy though...
     

  16. coldengray

    coldengray Tele-Meister

    Age:
    39
    252
    Sep 30, 2009
    Charlotte, NC
    Buying "boxes" because they sound good is nice and all, but IMO there is nothing wrong with knowing WHY they sound good...because of the circuit type, speaker type, tubes, etc.
     

  17. TeleV

    TeleV Tele-Holic

    511
    Mar 10, 2008
    Philadelphia, PA
    This whole thread makes me think of a movie scene where a dumb jock walks into the honors math class in high school and asks the envious nerds for the answers to his homework.

    I also learned that amps are sometimes called "maps" and "boxes".
     

  18. noah330

    noah330 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Maryland
    Sorry for asking a question then. When I go to a restaurant I like I don’t particularly care about how they cook the food but I’ve eaten at enough places to know what I like I guess.

    Not everyone is into repairing electronics. I have enough to deal with in my life. We can’t all do everything.

    When I was in college my homework would be about playing and writing music. I never had a “history of gear” class.
     

  19. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Mar 17, 2003
    Spring City, Pa
    I believe some people think that there is "enthusiast grade gear".
    It's weird when, as happened to me the other day, one approaches someone with something like a '55 Jaguar XK 120, and the owner knows next to nothing about it.
    It sort of looks like..."I just buy them. What I lack in knowledge, I make up for with money."
    I think some of this stuff is history and if you're going to be the custodian of it, you should know about it; you're a curator.
    The folks I don't expect this from are generally older folks who have owned the thing since before it became antique/collectible.
    There was a time when even a 60 'burst was sort of a ham-and-cheese guitar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    telemnemonics likes this.

  20. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    38
    Feb 26, 2017
    Manchester UK
    There's a tv programme where I live that has people in possession of antiques who show them to experts who categorise and advise on them. Popular show for all concerned

    Quite why anyone could think you can't have something lying around you don't know every detail on is because they must be projecting their character on to your profile. Some people would know everything

    I could very easily have accidentally bought something great used once and not researched it properly before coming on here and asking what is probably the world's greatest focus of approachable amp enthusiasts. You got help, some people enjoyed finding the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle - and someone seems to have got sour that you have a dream amp cheap from when they were undervalued

    Good for you
     
    noah330 likes this.

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