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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Basic Loopers: Boss RC-3 or DigiTech JamMan Solo XT?

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by FenderGuy53, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    i've never owned a TC pedal.. honestly though, i've had poor luck with boss and digitech. i don't understand why these companies can't use decent switches.

    i want to demo the TC Ditto
     

  2. sagaci

    sagaci Tele-Meister

    198
    Nov 10, 2011
    Australia
    Personally, for non-looper pedal, the most satisfying switch I've used is on the Suhr Riot.
     

  3. Televised

    Televised Friend of Leo's

    Apr 26, 2009
    Portland, OR
    I too haven't tried the TC Ditto Looper, (Video link supplied above by "digitanis"), but I am getting some good second hand press on it and it strikes me as a no nonsense hardy pedal for what it is designed to do. Also the price tag seems reasonable.
     

  4. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    the ditto isn't yet released.. March i believe.. perhaps you are referring to the TC delay that has looping?
     

  5. tap4154

    tap4154 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Southern California

    That is an excellent idea!

    Thanks! :idea:
     

  6. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    IMO the most vital missing feature in all the budget looper pedals is some way to monitor the signal level. If you record too "hot" you get distortion, if you record too weak a signal you get noise, and without signal level monitoring you're pretty much groping in the dark as to the proper signal level. Most USB microphones have the same problem, no way to set the levels properly to take maximum advantage of the devices dynamic range.

    I think many of the complaints about hiss/noise we've heard on this thread come from using too low a signal level when the loop is recorded. Try using a stronger signal - if necessary use a clean boost of some sort between guitar and looper.

    -Gnobuddy
     

  7. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    Thanks, Cliff! Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see this post until now.

    -Gnobuddy
     

  8. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    Are you saying you can accurately tap 32nd notes with your feet? Most of us can't, and if you're off time by even that small an amount, the loop ends up an extra 32nd of a beat long (or short) and "glitches" slightly each time around the loop. Unless the pedal quantizes to the nearest beat, as the Digitech ones do.

    Most of us guitarists use 16th notes with some regularity, and the loop needs to be timed to considerably better accuracy than that - i.e. much less than one sixteenth of a bar - to sound right. Considering lots of guitarists can't play 32nd notes with their hands, I really wonder how many of us can be that accurate with our feet.

    Not to go round and round in circles, perhaps you really are that good with your feet, but I don't think most people are. This guy (Omar Hakim), for one, probably is that good with his feet:

    -Gnobuddy
     

  9. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    32nd, 64th, 128th, no problem

    :rolleyes:


    look i'm not a pro and i'm not on a mission to prove anyone right or wrong. i just like looping and when i play guitar, that's what i do. i posted 1 clip of a loop i made which demonstrates the boomerang looper's ability to play back several loops and bounce between a couple of different ones. the drum pattern you hear in that loop i recorded with a drum machine and my foot on the looper switch. its good enough for me.

    geez
     

  10. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    That's where the quantization feature in the Digitech units comes in. Most of the drum tracks are based on eigthth-notes, and I think the loop is quantized to that level of accuracy; stomp on the switch within less than an eighth-notes duration from the end of the bar, and the quantization takes over and gives you a smooth and glitch-free loop.

    You still have to play the guitar in time, of course - nothing is going to give you a glitch-free loop if you can't play the instrument in time. But the foot-switch quantization makes things a bit more forgiving for those of us who don't have jazz-drummer feet to match our guitar-playing hands.

    I don't think the Boss loopers have this (very valuable, to me) feature.

    -Gnobuddy
     

  11. tap4154

    tap4154 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Southern California
    Yes, I've found it best, when recording the loop at home, to turn the amp way down, and guitar volume full on. Then when playing back, turn the amp to your normal volume level, and adjust the loop level at the pedal. Record all your loops that way so they'll play at the same volume.

    That's with no effects in the chain. If you put effects before the looper, it's gonna be trickier. IMO it might be best to just record the loops clean, then add effects after, if you wish.
     

  12. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    Okay, let's just say some of us find the quantize feature useful, while others happily do without it, and leave it at that. :D

    -Gnobuddy
     

  13. FenderLover

    FenderLover Friend of Leo's

    Jun 11, 2009
    Minnesota
    FenderGuy53 -
    I just got a Boomerang III, so if you have a paypal account and want a Boss RC-20XL for the cheapest price you've ever seen, just PM me. Original manual and box, as-new condition.
     

  14. Cooper Black

    Cooper Black Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 13, 2012
    Asheville, NC
    Jamman Stereo has LED lights (green/red) and a variety of input sources. I have not had any clipping issues. Mostly I run stereo 1/4" from a small Mackie board (LR-send/return). 12:00 on the Jamman seems to be unity-gain. I can run anything I want into the looper (and I do!). Playback comes thru the studio monitors (don't have to share the amp when I play along).

    Drawback: Foot swicthes on the Jamman Stereo are so loud any mic will pick up the click--major design flaw. :eek:
     

  15. fly135

    fly135 Tele-Holic

    597
    Dec 19, 2007
    Orlando
    You keep mentioning that quantize makes the loop glitch free. Your timing pressing the pedal makes it glitch free. Quantizing stretches the loop to match the tempo programmed into the looper. If there is a glitch then it's still going to be a glitch after quantize.
     

  16. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    so its 8th notes, or 32nd notes? :lol:
     

  17. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    I think we're talking about two different things. The problem I've encountered is that while I can play my guitar accurately on the beat from the looper pedals internal metronome or drum track, my feet are not so accurate with the looper pedal switches.

    I don't think this type of quantizing stretches the loop in any way; it just sets the loop point accurately on the beat, even if your foot lands on the switch at not quite the exact time. In other words, the loop isn't cut at the instant the footswitch closes; it's cut off at the nearest beat instead.

    Put it another way, if you play on time but stomp on the switch a fraction of a second late, without the quantize feature that extra fraction of a second is also recorded and looped, so the last bar doesn't end quite right, and the first bar of the loop doesn't start quite right. That's the glitch I was talking about.

    -Gnobuddy
     

  18. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2010
    British Columbia
    The internal drum tracks are mostly 8th note patterns. Most guitarists will play some 16th note parts over that as long as the tempo isn't ridiculously fast. To make 16th note parts sound accurate, the loop itself has to end with better accuracy than a 16th note. The next shorter musical note is a 32nd, so you want the loop to end with that accuracy or better. Whats the confusion about?

    -Gnobuddy
     

  19. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    this is true.. a bad step is a bad step is a bad step... all quantize does is make sure the loop syncs to its own heartbeat.. it doesn't make the guitarists part sound natural in any way... it can actually make it sound weird and glitchy.
     

  20. Cooper Black

    Cooper Black Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 13, 2012
    Asheville, NC
    You may be over estimating this obstacle. I think everyone using a looper has battled this issue, but it is just another technique that takes a bit of time to master--like a day or two using the thing regularly.

    Jamman Stereo has a Quantize feature. 1) Needs a pre-set time signature (default is 4/4). 2) Tap in the tempo. 3) You'll need the drum track ON to hear the click. 4) Stomp on the switch, wait through the 4-beat count-in now you are recording your "glitch-free" loop.

    Too much hassle for me. I just worked on my foot timing. I mess up a loop now and again--do over time.
     

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