Authentic Tadeo Gomez signature/initials or forgery? Any opinions on this "1952" Tele?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by BodhiSM, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. BodhiSM

    BodhiSM NEW MEMBER!

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hi,

    This is my first time posting on this forum. I come seeking advice and opinions on the authenticity of a guitar I have that may be a 1951 Tadeo Gomez Tele. I bought this guitar a long time ago thinking it was just a parts guitar. It was sitting in the closet for years as i had quit playing. Took it our recently, found it had a short in the input. Brought it in to my guitar tech who thought there was something interesting about the guitar. He took the neck off and found the TG initials and dates from 1952. First thought was "Wow". Then I realized that it could possibly be a forgery. I may be interested in selling the guitar at some point in the future and want to be sure of what it is so I don't unwittingly rip someone off. So, if anybody out there has an eagle eye for these types of things I would appreciate feedback. Not sure if this is pertinent information or not, but I bought the guitar in 2000. Not sure if there was a lot of forgeries going on at that time. Thank you. Tele1.png Tele2.png
     
    tonyj, PeterUK and BorderRadio like this.
  2. Artslap

    Artslap Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    50
    Posts:
    897
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    tonyj likes this.
  3. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,053
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
  4. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,971
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Location:
    on my bike
    Under what description was it sold to you?
     
  5. jbwhitaker

    jbwhitaker TDPRI Member

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    7
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Location:
    Selmer TN
    I don't really have anything to say that would benefit you in your quest for authentication, but I would like to add.....HOLY CRAP!!!!
     
  6. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,594
    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Location:
    Eastern Massachusetts
    Does it play good?
    Isn't that the actual question?
    If you are only concerned with its value as a TG piece, are you going to play it?
    If not, what's the point?
    Rant over.
    Thank you.
     
    jimash likes this.
  7. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    6,763
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Location:
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    If I understand the OP, he doesn't want to sell it AS something its not...nor does he want to under-sell, and then have it pop up on Reverb or Ebay at 100X the price he got. Just wants to know the TRUTH....like most of us. ;)
     
  8. tonyboy

    tonyboy TDPRI Member

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    86
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Woodstock, GA
    In Nacho's book 52 necks would have + truss rod adjustment scre and not -.
     
    PeterUK likes this.
  9. Kingpin

    Kingpin Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,421
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Here
    Can you post photos of the headstock, 12th fret dot spacing and the "Tadeo taper" on the back of the neck (the curved area between the nut and first tuning peg)? That might give more knowledgeable people here more indicators to work with.

    The "D" stamp certainly makes this interesting.
     
    BopT and PeterUK like this.
  10. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,378
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Location:
    toronto
    we would really need to see more pictures of the whole guitar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  11. Flakey

    Flakey Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,364
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Location:
    The Land of 10,000 Lakes
    With blackguard necks, as others have said, there are other factors that can be used to identify it as aa early 50 s neck. One thing that is not being duplicated so much is how shallow they placed the truss rods back then. For instance, the maple between the nut and truss rod plug isn't very thick and often the maple has cracked between these to points. As it also appears the truss rod nut is closer to the fretboard indicating a shallow truss rod channel that was typical at the time

    Depending on the year that truss rod screw would be correct. Remember Fender didn't have tight inventory controls on their parts in the warehouse. First in was not always the first out.
     
    SnidelyWhiplash and BopT like this.
  12. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    946
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Location:
    NE US
    Welcome, you came to the right place. Not that I'm the one to tell you what's what but there will be others who can help you.

    In the Telecaster Book by A.R. Duchossoir he has photos of a 1951 (Nocaster) neck and pocket. The TG on those have the G more box like with more of a straight line across the top, down, over and such. But in Artslap's post the thread he references showing a 1954 is different than I ever saw. The '51 shows a phillips slot nut like tonyboy says in his thread, and the book says they were slothead like yours until early '51. But there could have been some old ones laying around that got used later.

    In the book the neck doesn't have a D stamped on it but there is one just like on your neck stamped in the pocket.

    Hope it's real, and please show us all of that Tele.
     
  13. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,460
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    It would necessarily suggest it’s not a 52 neck. Inventory management wasn’t great in the early days and they would regularly run out of stock so would use whatever was available.

    ;) Peter
     
    tonyj likes this.
  14. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,460
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Yes please. 12-fret dot marker spacings please. Maybe have a tape measure to hand too.

    I’m not convinced by the ‘Tadeo Taper’ theory. I voiced my ideas in one of the links posted above but do buy into the beautifully sanded volutes which the early necks.

    The folklore image of Tadeo sat outside the Fullerton factory patiently sanding volutes doesn’t match the available evidence of the time (primarily Forrest White’s book) which describes the early years of Fender as unorganised chaos.

    I’ve had some negative responses because I dismiss the legend of Tadeo Gomez but he is not mentioned in any of the official guides and reference material about the early days (e.g. ‘Master Luthier, Tadeo Gomez) and when the Webers Telecaster Discussion board ‘stalked’ him and approached his family (as he had passed away), they were surprised, shocked and delighted about the implied legacy he left. Apparently he left Fender in the mid-50s and returned later as a janitor and maintenance man, and left again to set up a tobacconist store.

    His legend has live on as we have fueled the flames of story. Apparently, so the theory goes, he was both left and right handed and wrote in several different fonts. :D

    I know my theory is widely hated, but if someone can offer some real proof that Tadeo was indeed the Master Luthier we recognise today, I’m ready to listen.

    BTW, apparently he was a wonderful family man and lived a full life.

    D-stamp!!?? Now there’s a whole different ‘Never to be Answered’ mystery.

    :) Peter
     
  15. Crashbelt

    Crashbelt Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    392
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Location:
    Cambridge England
    Nacho's book notes that slot heads turn up into 52 and some later. He advises he had a Jan 54 slothead. My late 53 has one too.
     
    Charcoal Burst, Kingpin and PeterUK like this.
  16. sonicdom

    sonicdom Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    103
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    switzerland
    Yep. My mid '52 still has a slot head. I used to have an april '52 with a philips head truss rod. Until late '52 both are possible. I think the latest slot head I've seen was October '52.

    It looks like it could be the real deal. Why would anyone fake a refinished '52? If you go through all the trouble of faking you probably want to fake a near mint original finish '52 rather than a stripped finish, neck overspray example. $$$
     
    tonyj and PeterUK like this.
  17. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    862
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Location:
    Low Lands
    WOW

    The TG signature is actually one of the least decisive things in identifying if it was originally a '51/52 neck. There are lots of other details to determine the age.
     
    PeterUK likes this.
  18. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,460
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I've just re-read you post again and there is some pertinent information which might help with authentication.

    This is really important.

    Today, if I was minded to create a forgery - a 1950 Broadcaster, a 1951 Nocaster or a 1952 Telecaster - it would be MUCH easier to do this as it was 18-years ago.

    Before the TDPRI (RI is for reissue; when the ownership if the board changed from Norm to today's Paul) there was the TDP and the 0le Fuzzy's 'Webers Board', a discussion page dedicated to vintage Telecasters. I have an link to the archived site and these is still some invaluable information on there.

    Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, there was much discussion about authentic and reproduction parts. There were very, very few reproduction parts available and a milled jack cup, for example, was exchanging hands for $250+.

    There were no authentic reproduction bodies, certain not necks as the Warmoth and USACG necks has a wider skunk stripe than the original genuine 50s neck, so it was really hard (and expensive) to forge an early Blackguard.

    A few of us pooled what we had. I had a milled jack cup, @DaveYeats had some 50s knobs, etc. and the late Brian Poe started to produce replicas for a few $dollars. Brian went onto to produce replica bodies after a huge amount of input from Fuzzy and others, and Musikraft took the neck specs from Nacho's 'The Blackguard Book' and started to produce replica/repro necks (to date, only the Canadian dentist Elliot Mechanic had produced necks that were remotely close; I got one!), so by the mid-2000s, you could create a reasonable replica with an authentic body, neck and some hardware.

    Dale at Glendale continues to produce the Brian Poe knobs, Marc Rutters has some awesome authentic vintage-spec hardware (neck plates, controlplates, ferrules, etc.) and others have other items. Apart from the bridge plate (a current Fender item could be suitable doctored) and tuners/machine heads (modern ones include a lot of plastic parts) and pick ups (but really, really good repros are wound by many), I could recreate an authentic reproduction (fake/forgery) good enough to fool the over enthusiastic eBay buyer/collector.

    But I couldn’t have done this in the year 2000.

    :) Peter
     
  19. netgear69

    netgear69 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,343
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Location:
    england
    The font of the D stamp can be faked but looking at that it looks like one clean punch the tail ends of the D don't look amended the top tail is thicker than the bottom tail
    which would be correct and the patina on the truss nut looks genuine
    like others have said it would be interesting to see the other specs of the neck

    Tele1.jpg
     
    2blue2 and PeterUK like this.
  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    31,434
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    There are people in the LA Area that could do an accurate assessment of that instrument. In order to have much of an idea here, we need many more pics of pertinent details.....good pics of front and back of body, controls, bridge, neck details....dot inlays, front and back of headstock including the carve from the neck to the headstock, bottoms of pickups...
     
    PeterUK likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.