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Anyone familiar with Revel WRHB Rebulds?

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Jim622, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. Jim622

    Jim622 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
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    Apr 1, 2011
    Far N.E. Philadelphia
  2. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Jan 18, 2010
    on my bike
    Did original WRHB's have a connector plate?

    If it doesnt contain cunife magnets how does he consider it authentic?

    I'm sure they prob sound good but I'd have gone with the cunife when they were available here aftermarket.

    There's a running thread here with all the winders that offer this service. Only 1 had the appropriate magnets. "Had" being the key word. He's no longer in business.
     
  3. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    Dec 1, 2018
    Minneapolis
    Just to pop in and comment on bende66's comments.


    The originals had a reflector plate, yes.

    It's a tonal approximation. You get it as close to an authentic tone as you can.

    They sound very good. I assume the cunife being referred to here was in Telenator's pickups? Does anyone know for 100% certain cunife was being used? Also, are you not going to use any WRHB if it doesn't have cunife mags? That seems silly.

    He supposedly had them and supposedly ran out but is certainly of of business now.
     
  4. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    Telenator did use CUNIFE magnets.

    The problem with CUNIFE is that it's extremely hard to machine into screw poles like the originals.

    I wouldn't have a problem having a pickup with CUNIFE slug poles, the slug pole Alnico magnets worked well for Fender in other pickups. I believe you can get the CUNIFE rods to cut the slug poles if you want to, they do cost more than Alnico.
     
    SPUDCASTER and bender66 like this.
  5. zombiwoof

    zombiwoof Tele-Holic

    858
    Oct 17, 2008
    Tujunga California
    Actually, the reason CuNiFe mags were used in the first place in the WRHB's is that it was the one magnet material available that could be machined into screw poles. These days, there are alternate magnet materials that by using certain processes can be made hard enough to make into screw poles, however none will sound exactly like CuNiFe, so the guys making repro WRHB's have to tweak the windings and whatever to approximate the original sound using the different magnet material. CuNiFe is just too expensive these days, so you're choices unless this changes are to pay big bucks for vintage Wide Range pickups or to use a modern remake that will sound almost the same.
    Al
     
  6. SPUDCASTER

    SPUDCASTER Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    So if we're not using CuNiFe magnet material as the originals were. And we are now tweaking the windings or whatever they do now to get "almost" the same sound.

    Aren't we just making a little larger of a PAF'ish pickup? Aren't the WRHB's a little larger than HB size? Also, aren't the latest Fender WRHB's DCR less than the originals?

    Is that how we're "tweaking" the recipe? I know, don't rely on DCR's.

    I really don't know much about the WRHB's. It just seems they have had a resurgence of popularity in the last few years. Or at least what I've noticed.

    Worked with a guy back in the mid-70's that had a Tele Deluxe. I was more a single coil Tele/Twin Reverb guy. The WRHB's weren't really my cup of tea at the time. Just didn't feel that they fit into the country thing as well.

    Actually kind of liking them now.
     
  7. zombiwoof

    zombiwoof Tele-Holic

    858
    Oct 17, 2008
    Tujunga California
    The construction of the WRHB is different than a regular humbucker, it doesn't have steel polepieces and a bar magnet under the coils, it has threaded magnet polepieces and the coils are a different size than regular humbuckers. The Fender reissue pickups are not real WRHB construction, they are made like regular humbuckers with bar magnets and sound different than the originals, which were designed by Seth Lover to have a more Fenderish sound by using the theaded magnet polepieces.
    Al
     
  8. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    Minneapolis
    What zombiwolf said. The two big things that make the WRHB different are the size of the bobbins (and therefore the size of the coils) and the use of magnetic poles as opposed to screws and slugs with a magnet placed underneath the coils.

    The re-issue WRHB is a WRHB in looks only.
     
  9. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    As far as the material for making screw poles being easy or hard, I was only going by what Telenator said in one of his threads. It may be one of the easier materials to make into screws, I wouldn't know for sure or not since I haven't tried to make them myself. I do understand that the CUNIFE magnets are available, just very expensive which is why real spec pickups are so expensive.
    I've heard some makers pickups that have been tweaked to achieve a convincing replacement. However, none of those so far have matched the sound of the originals IMO. Since most makers are just tweaking regular HB's into a close resemblance, Why not save some more dollars and get decent regular sized HB's that basically sound the same as the pretend WRHB pickups?
     
  10. zombiwoof

    zombiwoof Tele-Holic

    858
    Oct 17, 2008
    Tujunga California
    I think you would get closer to the original sound with the original construction, but using the alternate magnet materials. The magnet polepieces and other construction features are what contribute to the sound of these pickups IMO. I don't think it can be done using typical HB construction, the Fender reissues are evidence of this, they've tried their best to do this with little success.
    Al
     
  11. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    43
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    Dec 1, 2018
    Minneapolis
    Three things:

    1. Where can you buy Cunife?

    2. Most makers are NOT "just tweaking regular HB's into a close resemblance." Everyone is doing almost the same thing which is offering a vintage spec'd pickup with FeCrCo instead of Cunife. What differs is the parts they are using (where they are manufactured) and the way they wind the coils.

    3. Humbuckers DON'T sound the same as WRHB's. Neither are they the same size.
     
  12. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    Dec 1, 2018
    Minneapolis
    You are correct.
     
  13. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    So it's not that CUNIFE magnets aren't being made, it's for pickup applications that are not being made. However, a supplier would make it for the right amount of money which is hard to commit to for some operations.

    From some makers videos and sound samples, the FeCrCo magnets come closer to the originals than the Alnico types IMO. Steel poles with Neodymium magnets might do well for the WRHB pickup.

    There are a couple of pickup makers out there trying to make regular HB's into a replacement pickup. Some stuff a regular HB into a WRHB frame and some just make a regular HB that looks like a WRHB. Then some people put 2 Tele bridge pickup coils into a WRHB frame and cover with Alnico screws. Still don't sound like the originals.

    I'd rather save up for a set of non-working originals off the bay and fix them(most likely needing a magnet re-charge) or just buy a regular HB. I can find great sounding regular HB's, Firebird's or Minibuckers for 75 bucks or less. I'm just not going to spend more than that on pickups that are marketed as something they aren't.
     
  14. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    43
    7
    Dec 1, 2018
    Minneapolis
    So Fender, arguably one of the largest musical instrument manufacturers in the world, stopped using Cunife because it's difficult to source, but "a supplier would make it for the right amount of money which is hard to commit to for some operations." The amount of money needed is being extremely underestimated.

    Steel poles with neo magnets would be horrible for the WRHB. It's the magnetic poles and the consequent magnetic field that make the WRHB what it is.

    The "maker" who stuffs "a regular HB into a WRHB frame...just make a regular HB that looks like a WRHB," IS Fender.
     
  15. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    Fender made a cost saving choice in their production by dropping the CUNIFE magnets, their reissue pickups were lacking and your right about their present WRHB pickup.

    Why do you think the Neo mags would be terrible? I now a guy that makes great Neo Mag Strat pups.
     
  16. Revel

    Revel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    43
    7
    Dec 1, 2018
    Minneapolis
    I maintain the availability and cost of Cunife is being wildly exaggerated, and I think a large part of that comes from what Telenator had and was selling and the information he/they provided. The Cunife they did use way back when was, if I recall correctly, an old rod he/they found or procured somehow and used for a small run of WRHB's.

    But I looked into having it made for pickup use about ten years ago and the very initial cost that was suggested was $30k. So...

    As for neo mags, you wrote "Steel poles with Neodymium magnets might do well for the WRHB pickup." I thought you meant literally that, and that would be the typical humbucker. Steel poles and screws with magnets underneath it. And that design is contrary to what makes a WRHB what it is.

    If you mean using neo poles, that's different. I don't know of any neo's that exhibit gauss in the range I'd want for a WRHB.
     
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