Amp room sound vs close-miked sound

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Steve 78, May 20, 2019.

  1. Steve 78

    Steve 78 Tele-Afflicted

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    I have been using a home-built oversized front ported 2 x 12 cab for a few years now. I like the sound - it's big, open, plenty of bottom, plenty of clarity. But I did a recording yesterday (sm57 pointed straight at speaker) and the recording sounded quite harsh.

    For recording this is not a huge issue, I could use a room condensor for example, but I am thinking to the future for if/when I play this rig live.

    Around here 95% of the time, the venue will have a PA and the engineer will close-mike a speaker. What is the best way to build a cab so that the room sound (standing a few feet in front, as in typical playing) is not too far away tonally from the close-miked sound?
     
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  2. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Ah - mic pointed right at centre of speaker?

    Most engineers will point the mic at the edge of the speaker - in addition many put the mic on an angle parallel to the cone. Otherwise you will get precisely what you heard, overly hard sound

    Some engineers will hang a 57 down the front of the grille.
     
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  3. Steve 78

    Steve 78 Tele-Afflicted

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    It was off-centre, but the angle was dead straight. I will try as you suggest, but my bigger point was trying to the get the room sound similar to the miked sound so I can adjust eq, gain etc by ear and have the miked sound be pretty good (for live shows where I might not have control over mike placement).
     
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  4. mexicanyella

    mexicanyella Tele-Holic

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    I’ve always liked cardioid dynamic mics (mostly SM57s) to be rotated off-axis somewhat rather than straight on...as Dacious said.

    It usually sounds better to me near the edge of the cone instead of near the center, too.

    I figure this has to do with how I’m used to hearing my speaker(s) off-axis.
     
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  5. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    So to restate: Most threads like this want to *mic the amp for more room sound*, but you want to *build a cab* so the room sound is more like the close-mic PA sound, right?

    No experience, but from first principles, would a closed back, un-ported cab sound most 'the same' to the room as to a mic in front of it? Or...?
     
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  6. GuitarPix

    GuitarPix Tele-Meister

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    Try different positions including pulling back from the grill cloth to find the ideal spot for you. Many people also add a ribbon mic to get more warmth. Mixing the two mics can sound really nice and you don’t need a really expensive ribbon but of course it helps. Don’t forget to check phase between two mics


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    the correct term for micing dead center is on axis and off axis for the edge of the cone

    I use both in my Iso box a senheisser 609 for on axis and a Beyer dynamic for off axis and blend the 2 signals

    P1011350.JPG

    57's are a standard for micing amps and in live situations you have 2 other factors to consider
    1) you have more room so the nuance of the tone will be absorbed by the audience
    2) the SPL's or sound pressure levels will be more diverse in a live scenario

    so what you get at home will not necessarily be what you get live
     
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  8. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    You need to experiment with mic placement. This is a struggle in any recording environment, and many hours can be spent searching for the sweet spot. Once you find it, use tape to show the position on the grill cloth where the mic should go.

    Be aware that if you want "room sound", you're gonna hafta get the mic away from the grill-cloth. Any mic is only going to pickup what it "hears". What the mic hears depends on where the mic is physically placed. If you want the mic to hear what your ears hear, put the mic where you ears could be. Off-axis, and some distance away from touching the grill-cloth.
     
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  9. Steve 78

    Steve 78 Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes that's it exactly. Unusual I know but I'm curious.

    I have a very small open back 1x12 which sounds much thinner so I think size comes into it. As for open vs closed I have no idea but my wife has a closed 1x10 so I could experiment to see if that is any closer as well.
     
  10. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I have in the past mic'd the back of an open back cab and placing the cab a bit back from a wall or a corner , with some good results but watch for phase relations with your signal , you will find that a speaker is a parabola and as such focus's its out put to about 10-20-30 feet out infront of a cabnet this is called the sweet spot mst guitarists dont expieience this because the signal blows past their knees but the audience does because its at ear height, close micing a cab gives you another principal called the proximity effect , and that is what you experienced with the on axis micing you did previously

    one other thing you may try is to place your amp up off the stage this will prevent your amp from rumbling and produce a rumbly low end signal this is called de-coupling your amp and may clean up your signal as well, a chair or an amp stand will work for this purpose and focus your speakers up to where you can hear more clearly
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  11. LuthRavin

    LuthRavin Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    My SM57 off axis three inches away or hanging down off center..works for me most the time..never pointed at the cone straight on..
     
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