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American Special Telecaster Treble Bleed?

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by atomfissure, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I can't for the life of me remember where I read it, but I believe I read somewhere that American Special Tele's come stock with a treble bleed in addition to the greasebucket circuit. I've never used a treble bleed, so I don't know to compare but it sure sounds to me as though treble is being lost when I turn the volume down. In theory, the idea of a treble bleed in conjunction with the greasebucket seems like a great idea, allowing you to have exactly as much treble as you want at all volumes.

    If its not there already, has any one installed one? What are your impressions?
     

  2. PCollen

    PCollen Tele-Afflicted

    May 7, 2010
    Man of the World
    My US13xxxxxx AS Tele did not come with a treble bleed. I had to add it. I just added a .001uF cap as a treble bleed; no resistor. But I may add a 150K or 220K resistor in parallel to the .001uF cap to see if I like the effect it has on the volume pot taper. It's easy to do on a Tele.
     

  3. Ripradiant

    Ripradiant Tele-Holic

    828
    Jul 31, 2014
    Alberta Canada
    Please explain what a treble bleed does? And why relevant to the American special which is my fave guitar. thanks!
     

  4. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I've never used one myself, but my understanding is that a treble bleed counteracts the loss of treble that comes with rolling back on the volume knob. It allows for far less treble to be rolled off along with the volume.

    Meanwhile, the greasebucket circuit on the american specials tone knob works to roll off treble without adding bass.

    So, if it works the way I figure it one could ideally dial in the amount of treble they want with the tone knob, and be able to retain that setting much more easily when they also roll off the volume.

    However, different types of treble bleeds (one with a capacitor alone, one with a capacitor and a resistor in parallel, and one with a capacitor and resisitor in series) have different degrees to which they effect the taper of the volume pot and what frequencies are retained/rolled off. Because of that fact, and the fact that I wouldn't know what I was looking at if were to take a peek at the wiring, I wasn't sure if the Am. Specials already had them or not. It sounds to me like they do not.
     

  5. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Thanks! Mine's a '12, so it would stand to reason that it probably doesn't have one either. Probably none of them do stock.

    I'm between a capacitor only bleed and a resistor in series bleed as far as where I'd start the experimentation.
     

  6. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    PCollen - From what you could tell, was there any change in tone between no treble bleed and with the treble bleed when the volume is rolled all the way up?
     

  7. PCollen

    PCollen Tele-Afflicted

    May 7, 2010
    Man of the World
    At full volume, no change in tone at all.
     

  8. PCollen

    PCollen Tele-Afflicted

    May 7, 2010
    Man of the World

    It works the same as a bright cap on the volume pot of a guitar amplifier.
     

  9. atk1

    atk1 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    42
    73
    Jun 16, 2016
    Dayton, Ohio
    I put that treble bleed circuit on all my guitars. It does wonders when rolling down the volume.. The tone stays intact rather than getting muddy.
     

  10. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Thats what I was hoping to hear. Which TB circuit do you prefer?
     

  11. PCollen

    PCollen Tele-Afflicted

    May 7, 2010
    Man of the World
    I've never tried the series resistor (Kinman-type TB). I have used the 150K resistor in parallel with the cap, but didn't care for how it altered the sweep of the volume pot, which is why I have used only the cap for 20 years now on the guitars I have, and have had. But I never tried a 220K resistor in parallel, so I might try that on this CP50's Strat I got recently, which really darkens up with the volume pot below 8. Now if you like using the volume as a sort of tone control then that could be a good reason not use a treble bleed.
     

  12. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I definite don't. I'm most hopeful to be able to keep the freqencuies the same accross the volume sweep, and just use the volume knob to boost/cut gain.
     

  13. atk1

    atk1 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    42
    73
    Jun 16, 2016
    Dayton, Ohio
    I think it's just a cap, probably a .001. I don't know the details exactly. I have a guy that does all my guitar mods and he was the one that introduced it to me. I have never noticed any tone suck.. in any situation. What I have noticed is that I now set my unity gain with the guitar at about half volume.. and it sounds just as good as it would at full volume.. Man, I thinks its the best invention since sliced bread.. lol
     
    songtalk and atomfissure like this.

  14. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 27, 2003
    Philadelphia, PA
    I have a Tele that I put a neck humbucker in, and it suffered from loss of highs, when reducing volume. I found this fellow on eBay who sells the treble bleed circuits for all kinds of guitars. So, I bought the one he said would be best suited for my situation. I have to admit, it works great. And, in 45 years of Tele-addiction, I'd never heard of it before. But, for the neck humbucker application, it performs exactly as advertised.
     
    atomfissure likes this.

  15. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Any chance you remember who that guy was? I'd be interested in his suggestion.
     

  16. AndrewG

    AndrewG Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    64
    May 15, 2007
    Exeter, England
    I'm one of those who prefer no treble bleed; I like being able to turn the volume knob down for more restrained rhythm parts and then whack it up again for the lead bits.
     
    Sandhill69 likes this.

  17. songtalk

    songtalk Friend of Leo's

    0.001 uF cap and call me in the morning.
     

  18. PhatBoy

    PhatBoy Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 17, 2003
    OKC, OK
    Can you have one on one pup(HB) and not on the others? Or, a different one on the other?
     

  19. atomfissure

    atomfissure Tele-Holic

    604
    May 31, 2010
    Pittsburgh, PA
    It attaches and thus reacts with your volume pot, so if you have a volume pot for each pick up, like in Tele 72 custom, you could. With a standard 2-knob tele, you can only have the one.
     

  20. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Not unless you have two volume pots. One for each pickup.
     

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