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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Alright, enough's enough...

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by DannyStereo, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    The specific problem with those models is the multi-section can filter capacitors. Most DIY techs don't want to touch those things, and old ones 1) can blow and damage the amp, or 2) be weak and cause the amp to sound bad. In fact most BF/SF Champs and Vibro Champs I've heard that have not been serviced did not sound very good for exactly the reason.
     
    DannyStereo likes this.

  2. Lies&Distortion

    Lies&Distortion Tele-Meister

    381
    May 27, 2014
    SE Michigan
    OMG! Traitor!!! :)
    I had noticed your avatar has been leaning that way.

    Back to amp discussion...carry on
     
    MilwMark likes this.

  3. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 13, 2014
    Kelso, Washington
    Gotcha! Yeah it felt like it had been run HARD for a very long time if that makes sense? Just sounded tired.
     

  4. MrGibbly

    MrGibbly Tele-Holic

    525
    Apr 19, 2014
    SATX
    I think it's wonderful that we musicians have access to such good sounding, good playing gear at affordable price points. If you go back and inflation adjust the original sale prices of Fender/Gibson stuff to the '80s and, even more striking, to the '60s you'd be saving for a new guitar or amp for months or years on an average income. There's a lot of value in these packages without being cheap. I won't touch the debates on whether the reissues sound like the originals or build quality compared to the originals...
     
    Piggy Stu and DannyStereo like this.

  5. Paully

    Paully Tele-Meister

    119
    May 29, 2014
    Lewiston Maine USA
    IMHO
    R.I.'s have put stuff that might be out of budget
    for some, and made that gear attainable.
     
    Piggy Stu and DannyStereo like this.

  6. clintj

    clintj Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2015
    Idaho
    Apparently not. :)
     
    thegeezer likes this.

  7. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 13, 2014
    Kelso, Washington
    Lol idk seems like there's some good discussion going on here. Good, honest opinions are being shared. I don't feel like anyone's come out of the gates just throwing out generalizations. The folks who've had a negative experience with Reissues have had just that... experience. I welcome an educated response, even if it's contradictory to my opinions.
     
    Piggy Stu likes this.

  8. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    No they haven't.

    They have made amps available that are budget versions similar to the original amps. They have not made the *same* things...in build quality or tone...available.

    To repeat, I'm not saying they sound bad - they just don't sound the same.
     
    Piggy Stu likes this.

  9. Allen Peterson

    Allen Peterson Tele-Meister

    231
    Sep 15, 2016
    Katy, Texas
    A while back I played a gig where they had a mid 60s Fender Concert amp in the back line. The owner insisted I use it . . . said I was going to love the sound. Well, I didn't. After listening to that thing pop and ping, I replaced it with my 65 Twin RI. It was so much better. Vintage amps are great, but they have to be maintained. I'm sure that old Concert would have sounded great, if it had been properly maintained.
     

  10. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 15, 2010
    Texas
    I previously owned a 1972 silverface Bassman Ten, a high-wattage silverface Twin Reverb, and a silverface Champ...and loved all but the Twin Reverb (too clean, loud and heavy).

    I have a 1990 '63-reissue Vibroverb I bought new-in-the-box in 1992.

    Outside of replacing the original (admittedly weak) Oxfart...erm, Oxford-style speakers and a tube job, this amp has given me no trouble whatsoever in the 25 years I've owned it. It has been used heavily for gigs, rehearsals, recording sessions, jam sessions and just general practicing for 19 or more of those 25 years. It's due to have the caps looked at and another tube job soon.

    Yes, I baby it to a certain degree. I use it, but I don't abuse it.

    Is it equal to an original 1963 Vibroverb?
    No, of course not...but with regular maintenance and proper care, I don't see why it can't give me 15-20 more years of use.

    Would I like to have an original tweed, blonde, brownface, blackface or silverface amp?
    Yes...but for the money, I could easily live with a reissue...I have already done that for a quarter of a century.
     
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  11. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    A reissue has to be maintained as well. I have heard plenty of early reissues that had not been maintained. The first Twin Reverb reissues are 15 years old now - and of the players I know that use them very few had ever considered regular service until I mentioned it. The overwhelming thought was "I have a newer amp that won't need anything unless it breaks." - no consideration of filter cap replacement at 12-15 years; very few even bother to have the bias checked when changing power tubes.

    The fact is a VERY small percentage of players participate in forums like this and most are completely unaware of ANY service needs - except repairs. This is one reason I suggest to every potential buyer of any used tube amp over 10 years old to have a tech verify it has been serviced recently or 1) get a low price on it and 2) immediately take it to a tech.

    10 years may be a bit early for regular service, but it'd need to be done in the next 5 years to be safe - and there's no guarantee *what* has been done to a used amp. And almost none that are 10+ years old have been serviced - maybe a sporadic repair, but about 1 out of 10 I see have had normal service done.
     
    daveyboy likes this.

  12. Allen Peterson

    Allen Peterson Tele-Meister

    231
    Sep 15, 2016
    Katy, Texas
    I totally agree. My five-year-old DRRI just got out of the shop. It was making a loud hissing noise. Turned out to be a worn-out tube. Thanks for reminding all of us to maintain our re-issues.
     
    DannyStereo likes this.

  13. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 13, 2014
    Kelso, Washington
    I have to say that the Reissue series has been good to me, much better than the Pro Tube series from the early 2000s in both tone and reliability.
     

  14. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 15, 2010
    Texas
    I'm from South of Fort Worth...I remember Eugene's!

    My master volume silverface Twin Reverb was bought there, as well as a million set of strings and accessories.

    My co-guitarist at the time also bought a Strat and an Ibanez wank-wank-widdly-widdly model there...it was a great shop.

    I miss it a lot.

    Do you happen to remember Jam Music and Sound in Arlington?
    Those guys took a lot of my money over the years...it was there I acquired all my early pedals and microphones, my 63RI Vibroverb, and my Fiesta Red 62RI Stratocaster.

     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017

  15. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

    Aug 29, 2007
    MV, CA
    I've shot out numerous Deluxe Reverbs from the 60s and 70s next to my 06 DRRI. Except for the headroom which is higher in newer amps, the tone and player response was very similar. The main difference is that the breakup point is much higher on the dial with a DRRI because the filter caps are newer. The older amps are extremely useful for studio work and small clubs because the caps have aged and you get that sustain and distortion at a lower volume. That's the primary difference I've heard.

    Not had one problem with my 06 DRRI going on 11 years of playing.
     
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  16. scottser

    scottser Tele-Holic

    656
    Mar 6, 2009
    dublin
    I just wish I could afford to have an opinion on this thread, as I can't afford a vintage original or a reissue ;P I have a special 6 head a Laney Cub head and some nice cabs. I'm certainly not missing anything and if I did play a reissue I'm sure I'd feel the same. Is there really a couple of grands worth of tone you can only get with the vintage amp?
     

  17. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Why "newer"? Were the other amps not properly maintained? How do they compare with filter caps of the same age? Will you be recapping your '06 DRRI in a few years? It'll be due - in fact its caps are kind of "old" right now. Not necessarily due for replacement, but not far from it.

    I'm really not sure what you're comparing unless you know the specific service history of every amp you heard.
     

  18. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Yes, maybe - but I'm not sure if you mean "couple of grands" *difference* in price or that a vintage model runs a couple of thousand. Most common vintage models don't cost over $2k - silverface Deluxe Reverbs, Supers, Pros, Twins are generally all under that unless near-nint condition. What do you mean exactly by your price comparison?

    As far as sound differences, some recognize them - and feel certain sounds are superior - and some don't. Which is perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with the sound of reissues, but many feel they do sound different.

    The main differences between vintage Fenders and reissues are usually noted as build quality/durability and ease of service (and often the resulting service cost due to additional labor).
     

  19. Dacious

    Dacious Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    No, of course not. What comes into the equation is several things. Old Fenders from 50-60 years ago can have catastrophic failures but many/most don't. My transformer winder tells me he never sees old Fender transformers. He's seen lots since the 90s and he says they're a mess.

    The Chinese use plastic formers which is not in itself bad, but they also user cheaper lacquered wires of less winds and less interleaving. They arc easier and tend to let go in circumstances the old stuff would shrug off. A lot of us have seen old Silverface outputs used and abused with the wax melted out and they just keep working.

    Coupled with PCBs with thin traces on flexible PCB and no through plated holes it's not a recipe for reliable long life. There are good PCBs -Marshall UK and Mesa, for instance.

    I own a Greta and Excelsior and they're great cheap fun amps to play with. If either had a transformer go, I'd get it repaired as cheaply as possible or sell it for bits. I'm under no illusions as to their likely longevity or landfill avoidance. Or long-term value.

    It's those factors, the long-term serviceability and retention of value (plus the fact they don't just sound like holy grails - they are holy grails) that makes vintage old amps in good nick worth lotsa dough. Not for everyone - it's hard to see a metalhead loving a SF Fender.

    It means they are worth owning, and maintaining and keeping cherry - if you like them. Like vintage musclecars. Yes, you can take a reissue and with tubes, speakers, component changes get it close. But then, it's a modded Reissue and likely not to hold value or even return your investment.

    Like, buying a new Mustang which is quicker and faster than any old one will lose 30% value when you drive it off the showroom floor. Whereas the 68 fastback Shelby will go up and up. Unfair, but true.

    Not to say - if you enjoy it, it's not a good amp and can't be reliable. People gig things like HRDx and Blues Deluxes successfully. To me I struggle with the tone of them and I'm unsure of long-term reliable use based I'm the one I've worked on.

    I just won an auction for a non-working SF Champ missing superficial parts - I'm confident even if both transformers are u/s I can return it to working state for less than the considerable price a working used one fetches. It'll probably outlive me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017

  20. Tonetele

    Tonetele Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2009
    South Australia
    I have a 65 PRRI Blackface and it sounds just as good as an original I've heard. Has the same tubes and circuit etc.
     

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