A New Project - '61 Ampeg R12

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by dragonfly66, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I found this a local music store. Sounds really good. Only thing is there some scratchiness when I play. Figured it needs new caps. The OT looks CRAZY and is directly connected to the speaker. Did I mention it sounds good? I know the PT was replaced and obvious work done on the board as there are Orange caps.

    So now in addition to being in 5E3 hell with two different 5E3 circuits causing me issues, I have added the Ampeg to the bench! UUUGH!! Cool thing, I found "The Guitologist" on YouTube restored this very amp - I'm going to check out his videos.

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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  2. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Congrats. Where is the bias cap? If it is under that 330ohm sandcast resistor, one might want to give it some breathing room to prevent overheating. And....that cap can would be replaced if it were mine.
    I see that Ampeg was even more frugal than Leo was....that C12S is not much of a speaker for 2 x 6V6’s....unless one doesn’t plan on pushing the amp. Leo would have used a C12R. Rickenbacker used a C12Q in my B9A, which runs a single 6V6....huge rich sonics. Rickenbacker did not scrimp.
    Enjoy the new amp.
     
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  3. ampking300

    ampking300 TDPRI Member

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    Great amp in great condition----power and output tranny's are both original, tap offs for speaker are as they should be from OT to speaker, don't know what you meant when you stated OT looks crazy directly connected to the OT---only things that have been replaced on this amp are the onboard caps and resistors, and tubes, everything else is stock original, including the speaker, which as Wally points out, is greatly under powered for this dual 6V6 setup, Everett Hull was know to do this. Speaker is rated at 10/12 watts,max, where amp is rated at 14 watts R.M.S----Ampeg Rockets of this era are greatly under rated and sound great with a much higher wattage speaker such as a Jensen P12Q,P or N model speaker, good luck with this beaut, Ray.
     
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  4. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Thanks @Wally and @ampking300 for the info.

    I said the OT looked crazy because it is covered in some white stuff that looks like dried up sea water. I was told the PT was replaced.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  5. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Here are some more photos...
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  6. mgreene

    mgreene Tele-Holic

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    I can guarantee you that NOS 6SL7 and 6SN7 will sound better than those Sovtecs.
     
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  7. J-Flanders

    J-Flanders TDPRI Member

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    Like in this video?
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Cool amp!
    IMO Ampeg lost it's way with guitar amps around 1963 or so, at least my favorites are '62 and earleir.
    They sure did cut corners though, not as bad as Supro but pretty scrimpy, aside from the sound.
    Nice that they put a schematic in every amp.

    How does it sound next to a 5e3?
    I had I believe a late '50s Jet and a same era Deluxe at the same time and the Ampeg killed the Fender.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  9. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    If you set a side all of the interactive stuff on 5E3 and just talking about the bright channel on the 5E3 vs the guitar input of the R12 - the R12 sounds cleaner, crispier than the 5E3. R12 sounds more scopped than the middy 5E3. The 5E3 is sporting a Weber 12A125-A and the R12 a vintage Jensen C12S. The overdrive tones are nothing alike. 5E3 has a fatter sound. I like both amps. I've been playing them with my #1, an LsL Topanga (maple neck, ash body) with low output soapbar P90s. I haven't played them yet with a Strat/Tele single coils or humbuckers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  10. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Not quite, but it is a static/crackling I hear when playing. I've heard it a little when not playing too. I haven't gone through the amp yet so I'm not exactly sure what is causing it, though I suspect the filter caps.
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That PT has a date code that fits the amp. The solder joints on pins 3 of the power tubes are either original or very well done some time ago.
    Sonics.....I have a C12S I took out of an organ. Just Friday I tried it with a couple of guitar amps. It is not something that makes me want to play....very bright, crisp. Ime, the only comparison of what two circuits do is to play them through the same speaker. I am thinking that the C12S is the major difference between the two amps. I could be wrong....but I have never heard a Weber sound anything like this C12S. The only OEM speaker I have heard in a guitar amp tHat was as th8n, bright and harsh as this C12S would be the CTS ceramics that Gibson used in some of their amps in the mid-‘60’s.
     
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  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Edit...
     
  13. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    The cathode bypass cap for the power tubes is in the cap can on these amps. There's three sections in there, 20mfd @ 450 volts and one 20mfd @ 25 volts. That makes finding a replacement difficult, Fliptops has them or you go with a C&E can and a single cap for the power tubes.
    Definitely get every last electrolytic cap in there replaced, that takes care of a lot of issues.
     
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  14. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Thanks for this, because I was wondering what that extra 20/25 was on the can. It all make sense now. I was looking for a new can at Fliptops, but didn't purchase anything yet because of not understanding completely what was in the can.

    The restoration I linked to, the guy disconnected the can and moved stuff around on the board so he could put the caps on the board. I'll end up getting the can.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  15. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    @Wally @BobbyZ Does the crusty OT raise any flags? Should I clean it off with a toothbrush or something?

    [​IMG]
     
  16. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Wally knows more about that than me.
    All I can say is I've seen some pretty ugly transformers that still worked very well and some nice clean ones that were fried.
     
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  17. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Dragonfly, that oxidation we see on the frame bothers me less on the frame than it would if one were to start trying to clean it up and some of it got down into the windings. IF....big iF...I wanted to do something about it. I would have to use a vacuum to suck up any crust or dust while I used a stiff toothbrush to see if some of the crusty stuff could be knocked loose. If I got some of it off and got close to having just metal, I would then use a rag lightly soaked in WD40 to wipe only the frame. I might even see if the nut could be gotten off...one at a time...so that the nuts and bolts could be judiciously treated with a bit of WD40...once again wiped on not sprayed. I would not want to get any WD40 on the paper...although it probably would not hurt anything.

    I agree with BobbyZ on the functionality of some cruddy looking trannies? And...this oxidation is on the frame. It may be that if one removed the frame one would see laminates in pristine condition....and that is where the questions about oxidation become of interest. And....even if the laminates are rusted, most would probably suggest not doing anything at all to disturb the oxidation....play on until there is a problem of failure or compromised operation.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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