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5f1 Champ line out?

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by daley.bc, Aug 12, 2018 at 7:46 PM.

  1. daley.bc

    daley.bc TDPRI Member

    32
    Oct 8, 2016
    Australia
    Hi all. I have a 5f1 champ clone head that I built and I'm wondering how to install a line out with a few possible options.
    1: line out with speaker still connected
    2:line out with a dummy load so I can just plug the head in direct
    3:line out just from the preamp
    I've found a few other threads about this in various places but none that answer these specific quiestions.

    Thanks :)
     
    LarryBudMelman likes this.

  2. Jakeboy

    Jakeboy Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 26, 2008
    Sedalia, MO
    Ask Jim at Lil Dawg. His line out come right off the speaker taps. Easy-Peasy
     
    nojazzhere likes this.

  3. MickM

    MickM Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Good idea. My 1st Li'l Dawg is a 5f1 oversized cab combo with an external speaker tap and one for a line out. Unfortunately I've never had it apart to see how that stuff is wired.
     

  4. FenderLover

    FenderLover Friend of Leo's

    Jun 11, 2009
    Minnesota
    Off of the speaker is the best, to include the back EMF effects of the speaker. Also works with a dummy load plugged in as a second-best. Spend a couple extra dollars for a 1:1 isolation transformer, but may not be necessary for your application. Go to Weber for their transformer, it's about $4.

    In my opinion, this is the single best mod for any amp, especially a Champ.
     

  5. daley.bc

    daley.bc TDPRI Member

    32
    Oct 8, 2016
    Australia
    Hmmm seems that the proper dummy load "reactive" boxes are bloody expensive. What about just getting a line out from the preamp stage?
     

  6. D'tar

    D'tar Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 11, 2013
    WNY
    nojazzhere likes this.

  7. FenderLover

    FenderLover Friend of Leo's

    Jun 11, 2009
    Minnesota
    A line out from the preamp doesn't give you any of the reactive quality of the load (speaker) but would be done the same way shown above by D'Tar before the phase inverter. It may also be made more versatile by adding a pot to set a usable output range, whether used at the output or preamp position.
     

  8. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    I believe this is what I've done several times, sourced from Gerald Weber's Tube Amp Book. (in the Tweed Deluxe mods section) I've even built a couple in little metal project boxes, so I can use as a line out for ANY amp.
     

  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    A signal from the preamp is a preamp out...not a line out, ime and imho. It is a preamp out. The line out taps the speaker leads and gives one a signal that contains all of the amp’s circuit’s signal. There are two resistors, a jack and a few inches of wire needed.
     

  10. daley.bc

    daley.bc TDPRI Member

    32
    Oct 8, 2016
    Australia
    So if I was to take a preamp out it would be from right after V1B coupling cap?
    Do i need to worry about V1B cathode 1.5k resistor or anything else after that coupling cap?
     

    Attached Files:


  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Daley, if you want to take the signal of the entire circuit...a line out....you want to tap off of the speaker leads. I prefer this true line out to a preamp out because it is...well....it is the entire signal including what goes on in the output transformer. There is a big equation involving the power tube, the OT and the speaker that has a lot to do with what happens in that Champ. If you want a ‘bigger’ Champ, you want the signal from the OT, imho.
    Rob...rob rob...probably has a preamp out described in his site somewhere.
    If I were to build a preamp out, I would build an effects loop. A preamp out is half of that loop with the return to the power amp being the other half. I would use that for insertion of effects in the post-preamp area of the circuit. I would then also build the line out for the purposes that you are seeking.
     

  12. Alamo

    Alamo Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Nov 15, 2006
    Berlin
    For that I have a Hughes & Kettner Red Box. the good thing about it is I can use it with different amps.
    and it's isolated.

    1-DSCN2318.JPG
     

  13. daley.bc

    daley.bc TDPRI Member

    32
    Oct 8, 2016
    Australia
    Ok cool I'll try this. Why are there 3 jacks though? Wouldn't it just be the speaker out that already exists and then one extra jack for the line out?
    Also, when using this mod ,does the speaker that's already connected still work or is it bypassed?
     

  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Daley.bc, Rob is maintaining the ext spkr jack while providing for the line out through a new jack one could use the ext spur jack. The main speaker jack and the speaker attached through it are still in-circuit and functional.
     
    D'tar likes this.

  15. D'tar

    D'tar Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 11, 2013
    WNY
    What Wally said. I'll just say that you MUST leave the speaker connected or use a dummy load if you don't want sound from the speaker.
     
    Wally likes this.

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