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50s wiring v. Treble bleed

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by bluemoon, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. bluemoon

    bluemoon TDPRI Member

    76
    May 17, 2010
    Chicago
    Can someone tell me the pros and cons of both solutions


    Thanks
     
  2. LawDaddy

    LawDaddy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    618
    Dec 14, 2009
    Auburn, CA
    For what type of guitar/pickups?
     
  3. bluemoon

    bluemoon TDPRI Member

    76
    May 17, 2010
    Chicago
    52 Reissue...stock pickups...modern wiring.
     
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  5. LawDaddy

    LawDaddy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    618
    Dec 14, 2009
    Auburn, CA
    I ask because I only have experience with '50s style wiring on Les Pauls. In that context, it's a certain way of wiring the pots and caps such that treble is retained as you turn down the volume knob. Basically you move the cap to the center lug of the volume pot. I wire my Les Pauls that way, it's a huge usability factor for me.

    Treble bleed circuits are different, they are small circuits connected across the pots lugs. In my experience, they don't sound natural to my ears as you turn the volume down.

    '50s wiring was a Godsend for me, as I control my sound from the guitar's knobs almost exclusively (no pedals). A quick search found this:

    http://www.premierguitar.com/magazine/Issue/2007/Feb/The_Telecaster_Mod_Guide.aspx

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. middy

    middy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    46
    Apr 28, 2010
    Dallas, TX
    Actually, the cap still goes to ground. The tone pot is wired to the output lug of the volume pot instead of the input lug.
     
  7. LawDaddy

    LawDaddy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    618
    Dec 14, 2009
    Auburn, CA
    Here's the diagram I use. I've done the same thing for a two-humbucker guitar with a 5-way super switch, one vol + one tone, and it works just like a Les Paul, response-wise. I've never tried the same thing on a Tele.

    [​IMG]

    I should note that one downside (for some) is that the interaction between the tone pot and the volume pots changes, and becomes somewhat non-liniear. For some that ride the tone pot a lot, they find the response of the modern wiring better suited to them.
     
  8. middy

    middy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    46
    Apr 28, 2010
    Dallas, TX
    Oh. OK, that's different than the one in the link you provided.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. LawDaddy

    LawDaddy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    618
    Dec 14, 2009
    Auburn, CA
    Yes, I just noticed that, too. Does anyone have a diagram for a Tele version? I essentially just wired my one vol, one tone guitar as one "branch" of the LP.
     
  10. Guitar_Ninja

    Guitar_Ninja Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Here you go:

    [​IMG]

    They're both doing the exact same thing. In this diagram the tone cap comes before the tone pot, whereas in the first diagram the pot comes first in series. A tone control is an RC network (Resistor-Capacitor), and for all intents and purposes the order of the capacitor and resistor doesn't really matter.

    If you're modding a stock tele, just use the first diagram, as it involves moving only one wire. You may notice a slight attenuation of bass with the change. It's subtle, but it's there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
  11. LawDaddy

    LawDaddy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    618
    Dec 14, 2009
    Auburn, CA
    Thanks, I see it now. Hell, I have a degree in electrical engineering and I still get confused! I've seen so many Les Pauls wired according to my diagram, it's just habit to look for the cap location.

    Interesting you say bass attenuation, LP players typically report modern wiring as being "brighter" when the vol pots are wide open.
     
  12. Guitar_Ninja

    Guitar_Ninja Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Are you joking, or are you being serious?
     
  13. KansasCity

    KansasCity TDPRI Member

    Age:
    31
    20
    Aug 4, 2010
    Tampa, Fl
    Thanks guys! My tele had a treble bleed cap; anytime I turned the volume down it lost all bass and was super bright. I just removed the cap and converted it to the 50's wiring. Now my volume pot is usable again!
     
  14. Strongpersuader

    Strongpersuader Tele-Meister

    344
    Sep 3, 2009
    Brazil
    I have tried this wiring in my Tele and I couldn't stand the short usable range of the volume pot, which had made me to immediately get back to the modern wiring.

    In my Tele assembling project I decided not to use a treble bleeder circuit in opposition to what I have in my Strat and after the unsucessful use of the 50's wiring in it I came to the conclusion that even losing some highs when backing off the volume, this can be quite useful for a Tele that usually has a fair amount of highs. YMMV.
     
  15. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 28, 2009
    London, England
    I use this but still lose loads of treble when I turn my guitar down.

    :(
     
  16. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    What value cap do you have ?? Is that when you have the tone down some or when wide open ?

    A .001 pF across the vol. pot terminals (the lower two in your diagram) might be better for you. Treble bypass mod.
     
  17. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 28, 2009
    London, England
    I have a .047 in there as it's a Fat Tele.

    Yes it dulls the treble (really, the whole sound) even with the tone knob al lthe way up.
     
  18. dgabbear

    dgabbear Tele-Meister

    152
    Jan 29, 2007
    Michigan
    My Hot rod tele sounds fine with the volume wide open, but gets really dull quick with the slightest turn of the volume knob. Should I go 50's wiring or treble bleed mod? If treble bleed is the answer, what values (cap resistor) should I go with for the treble bleed on this guitar? It uses 375k pots.
     
    Bass Knight likes this.
  19. TG

    TG Doctor of Teleocity

    I never could use the volume or tone controls on my tele (or any guitar) since it just went to 'mud' IMO. I tried treble bleed caps twice and each time removed them after a few gigs. It 'worked'....but I still wasn't thrilled with the sound with the volume rolled off. Just seemed thin.

    A year or so ago, thanks to this place, I learned the '50s mod and I'm thrilled with it. For the first time ever I can actually use the volume and tone controls. It's opened up my guitars.

    So the '50s mod get my vote.

    BTW...I use lower value Orange Drop caps too. Gives me useable tones right across the tone control sweep.
     
  20. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire

    That's what the "Fuzz Parka" should cure, AKA, 50's mod like TG.

    If you what to try the treble bleed, try a .001 pF (cap only)
     
  21. DADGAD

    DADGAD Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 18, 2003
    Earth
    1. I'd suggest trying the 50's wiring first. If that doesn't work for you....

    2. Take a 680pf capacitor and a 220K resistor and wire them in parallel with each other. Install the cap & resistor across the volume pot high side and wiper.

    Don't do both 1 & 2 together. I did on my MIM Tele yesterday and it was not a pretty sound. :eek: The 50's wiring was just right all by itself.

    Horses for courses.
     
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