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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

50's Baja Wiring help please

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by davo8411, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. davo8411

    davo8411 TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

    89
    Nov 8, 2011
    Pensacola, Florida
    I purchased a used 50's Baja control plate complete with the S-1 switch, vol and tone. I also purchased a used set of the pickups that were taken out of a Baja 50's Tele, which should be a Twisted Tele neck pickup and a Broadcaster bridge pickup. Note that I said SHOULD. My neck pickup has one white and one black wire which appear to be cloth covered. The Baja wiring diagram shows the neck pickup having green, yellow and black wires. So I looked on ebay and Reverb for other used Twisted Tele pickups and sure enough they all have the green/yellow/black wiring. So I don't know if I got taken, or if someone modified the neck pickup or . . . well whatever.

    Also, my S-1 switch is encased in a black plastic housing. The wiring diagram shows about three different wires being grounded to the S-1 switch. For all other examples of S-1/Baja switches I viewed on the internet, the S-1 switch does NOT have this black plastic housing on it. So I don't have a spot to attach what I believe are the various ground wires to the S-1 switch because it is covered with this plastic housing.

    I have changed out pickups and volume/tone pots before on other guitars and have no problem with soldering. But I cannot figure out how to wire this up.

    If I hook up the neck pickup white wire as though it was the yellow wire in the diagram, add a "green" wire to the pickup cover to ground on the tone pot, and wire the black wire as in the diagram. Does this sound like it will work? The photo is attached to show the black housing that surrounds the S-1 switch.


    20170617_211720.jpg
     
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  2. sonofiam

    sonofiam Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    188
    Jan 19, 2017
    Inland Northwest
    I don't believe you got taken on the control plate assembly. I did find some S-1 switches and control plate assemblies with the plastic housing that were advertised as genuine Fender at several vendors (my guess is different suppliers?). As far as the neck pickup wiring, you are correct in needing to add a third wire (green) to the cover and solder to ground. You can solder all grounds to the tone pot, just make sure to get good conduction between both of the pots and the control plate. I sand the back of the control plate and the the base of the shaft (where they make contact with the plate) to make sure of this.

    I gathered from your post you had a wiring diagram but attached another in case it would offer any further help.
     

    Attached Files:


  3. sonofiam

    sonofiam Tele-Meister

    Age:
    52
    188
    Jan 19, 2017
    Inland Northwest
    Let me clarify on the control plate assembly: I believe it's genuine Fender, I can't confirm that is actually from a Baja. The Baja assemblies I found had Sprague orange drops and no plastic housings.
     

  4. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 19, 2011
    Merseyside UK
    The control plate looks to be from a recent CP Baja 50s.
    The blue/white wire is correct and the capacitors are correct, afaik Bajas have never been factory fitted with Sprague caps. The enclosed S1 switch seems to be a recent change and more parted out Bajas are appearing with them.

    Classic_Player_Baja_50s_new_S1_switch.jpg
     

  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    S1 switches upgraded manufacturing from open frame to plastic housed. Apparently over time the originals were failing from all the pushing.

    I'm just reporting. I like the old ones, but they're impossible to find new anymore. The terminals on the new plastic ones are weak and will break right off, leaving you with a black plastic rock.
     

  6. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    Hey guys. I just bought a new Classic Player Baja Tele. A friend of mine living in the US brought it to me(I live in Brazil).

    For some reason only position 3 on the switch is working. I compared the wiring on this guitar with the schematics provided by Fender on their website:https://p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/014-1502A_SISD.pdf

    I noticed the same problem: with the black plastic housing on the S1, the capacitor connection is different, as you can see in the attached pictures.
    IMG_20171129_142651141.jpg IMG_20171129_142630376.jpg IMG_20171129_142549826.jpg

    Other than that, everything seems fine. Still, no sound coming from other switch positions.
    Any ideas? I cannot returned it since I live in another country :(
     

  7. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    The green wire on the tone pot needs to be soldered with the white wire, not the 2 black wires. So going from the bottom pic you should have the 2 black wires together...white and green together...single black. All your other pics look just like mine.
     
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  8. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    Not sure if I understood. Would you mind send me a picture?

    This is the official schematic on Fender website
    Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 3.25.38 PM.png
     

  9. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    Trying to upload my pic now, but mine isn't wired like that schematic. This is the tone pot, stock from the factory.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    Thanks for your prompt reply!
    I'm not sure if it makes a difference since every wire that is soldered in the potentiometer's back are in contact, theoretically.

    What about the capacitor. How is it wired to the S1 switch?
     

  11. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Here's my drawing of what I believe is a correct Baja diagram. (I don't own a Baja, but this is a pretty common circuit).

    This is identical to the Fender diagram you posted. Perhaps it's easier to see what's going on... I left cap values out because I'm not sure what Fender uses for these, and I didn't want to confuse the issue.

    If you wire it like this, it should work like a Baja!


    Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 1.00.38 PM.png
     
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  12. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    “I'm not sure if it makes a difference since every wire that is soldered in the potentiometer's back are in contact, theoretically.”

    I’ve not found that to be true. I recently swapped bodies on mine and took pics of the wiring before disconnecting anything.
     

  13. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    It's true. Ground is ground. As long as all commons connect, it doesn't really matter how they do it.
     
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  14. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    Here are the pics I took before disconnecting anything. I rewired it exactly like this after swapping bodies and all is as it should be.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  15. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    So, my wiring is identical to the schematics shown by @moosie and the pics posted by @Lonn

    How do I test the S1 potentiometer to know if this is the problem?
     

  16. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    That schematic and my wiring are not the same.
     

  17. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    So. I figured it out.
    It was a cold solder joint at the bridge pickup eyelets. I "reflow" it and now the bridge pickup is back to live! What a shame that Fender is shipping out guitars like that!

    I took my multimeter and I could not get any readings from the bridge pup. After I took my soldering iron and hold the tip on the pup eyelets for like 10sec everything started working as intended.

    BTW the pups reading on the multimeter (20k Ohm setting) for the Classic Player Baja Tele are:
    Neck Pickup: 5.99 Ohms
    Bridge Pickup: 9.33 Ohms
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  18. HMohr

    HMohr TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    8
    Nov 29, 2017
    Brazil
    What is the difference? Maybe I missed something
     

  19. Lonn

    Lonn Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    55
    Dec 13, 2007
    Indiana
    The schematic shows all wires going to one point on the tone pot, mine isn't wired that way. I know some think it doesn't matter but it does. Ive had the same issue with soldering wires to the wrong "glob" on a volume pot.
     

  20. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    There's a difference between a visual difference, and an electrical one. All ground wires ultimately connect to one place, the output jack. Doesn't matter how they get there. There are some best practices, avoidance of future failure scenarios, but that's icing on the cake after you understand the circuit.

    Which respectfully it seems you do not.

    If you're thinking about ground loops (as in ground loop hum), that's just not a thing in a low voltage passive guitar circuit. It IS a thing where you have multiple high current devices connected together in more than one way. Prime example is a 6G15 outboard reverb. That is a separate "amp", and both it and your guitar amp plug into the wall. They are also connected together by the instrument cable. The common on the instrument cable allows for return currents to find a variety of paths back to the power source (the local power grid). It's these eddy and cross-currents, and high current trampling sensitive low current areas like preamps, that cause this type of hum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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