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2X12 cabinet versus 1X12 cabinet

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by golfnut, Oct 11, 2018 at 6:17 PM.

  1. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    I have an Allen Old Flame Head with a 2X12 cabinet and an Accomplice 1x12 combo. I am selling the Old Flame with the 2x12 and have ordered a 1x12 extension cabinet for the accomplice. I'm just using the extension cabinet for bigger gigs.
    Just to get a sense of how a 2X12 cabinet would sound with the Accomplice I plugged in the 2X12 cabinet, selected the appropriate impedance and gave it a whirl. It was amazing how much bigger the Accomplice sounded. Both the Accomplice and Old Flame are set up with 6L6's. I was surprised how much the Accomplice sounded like the Old Flame through the 2x12 cabinet.
    My question is, is it a good baseline as to how the Accomplice will sound with the 1X12 extension cabinet or will it sound much different than a 2X12? The extension cabinet will have a completely different speaker so thats going to make a difference but just the big sound of the 2X12 if the 1X12 with the combo speaker could get 75% of that I'd be happy.
    I'm considering loading the 1x12 cabinet with a Celestion Gold. The combo currently has a G12V-70 and the 2x12 cabinet has a greenback and a G12H30. So tone wise will be much different.
     

  2. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

    Dec 8, 2010
    Montreal
    IMO --- 2 x 12 will always sound bigger & better than 1 x 12 unless the 1 x 12 is an exceptional speaker like maybe an Altec Lansing.

    Never tried a Celestion Gold so have no opinion on that. I have a vintage JBL D120F and in some situations it sounds better alone than 2 x 12 something else but not always.

    Works really well when teamed-up with an Eminence GB128 (Greenback clone), am going to pair it with a WGS ET65 next. Then have to try the ET65 with the GB128.

    Also have a couple of vintage Jensens to throw into the mix after I get them re-coned. The search for tone...my twin sounds amazing with 1 JBL only and two middle power tubes pulled out to lower the output so I can goose the volume a bit more.
     
    JustABluesGuy likes this.

  3. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    I didn't title this very well. I meant a 2X12 cabinet versus a 1X12 combo with a 1x12 cabinet in the extension, virtually making a 2X12 configuration, just in different cabinets.
     

  4. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    60
    Sep 2, 2016
    Houston, TX
    I think there is some reinforcement that comes from two speakers in one cab, as well as the larger cab itself that sounds “different” than a combo and extension speaker.

    Better is a preference. I have a 2x12 that I don’t use because isn’t very good, and it is very heavy. I use 2 1x12s when needed. I usually stack them but on stage the combo can be used as a monitor, and the extension can be pointed across the stage so the other musicians can hear you, or even in a stereo setup.

    Basically it offers many more options than a 2x12 does. Try to hear both options, side by side with the same drivers and see which you prefer. If a 2x12 sounds a whole lot better than 2 12s placed side by side, can handle the weight, and you don’t need the flexibility of two 12s then go for that.

    I actually prefer my vertical 2x10 cabs. They are fairly light, and they have tight bass, great cut and excellent dispersion (very little beaminess).

    Good luck with your descision!
     

  5. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    60
    Sep 2, 2016
    Houston, TX
    I think 2 12’s sound at least 75% as good as a 2x12 but I haven’t played a 2x12 in a good while. I haven’t really missed it either, so...
     

  6. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Missoula, Montana
    I have a Bad Cat black cat 30 1x12 and a 1x12 extension cab. My experience has been that if you put the two of them right up next to each other, as in touching, the cabinets kind of disappear & they couple with each other & with the floor to give you a big big sound. Maybe not exactly the same as a 2x12 cabinet but it does the trick pretty well. I've done the same with an AC15c1 and the bad cat cab and it makes the AC15 into a real man-eater.

    Beware, though, of differences in efficiency. More than 3 dB or so and the less-efficient speaker will disappear; you'll only hear the much louder, more efficient speaker. The Gold is right up there, don't know about the g12v. Worth a check.
     

  7. John E

    John E Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 17, 2003
    Connecticut
    I actually like both equally for the most part, I think... but it probably depends on the amp. I love a good 2x12 cabinet... and depending on the amp a bigger cab with a closed back for more "thump"... but I always enjoyed playing my mini plexi 1x12 combo with an additional 1x12 with closed back. You could separate the speakers in a way to get more "spatial" with the tone if that makes sense. Plus I found it easier lugging two smaller 1x12's to gigs. I have to say, I gigged through a HUGE 2x15 cabinet that was already on the stage once, I don't even know what the speakers were in it... but I'll never forget that tone. It was HUGE sounding... lol. I would never hump that to a gig though.
     

  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    For grins and perhaps illumination try this. Before you sell the 2 x12, set it up on end in a vertical orientation and take note of the difference in the dispersion pattern. You might like what happens. Then, with the 1x12’s you can choose how you want to use them...side by side, set apart, or stacked vertically.
    With different speakers in each cab, I personally would be stacking them. If I wanted a wide spacing, I would have identical speakers in the cabs. Ommv...
     
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  9. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    When A/B ing 2 x anything will sound much different than 1 x anything. But realistically, when not comparing and just playing, you wont hear it!
     

  10. Obelisk

    Obelisk Tele-Holic

    822
    Apr 1, 2013
    NW USA
    Personally I would go with a Mesa Thiele cab for your extra 1x12 to use with the Accomplice. The Mesa cab is super small but almost sounds as big as a 4x12. I use an EVM-12L which is what they were designed around, but Mesa also supplied them with their Celestion Black Shadow which is a Celestion G12-80 with a different voice coil. Those are great speakers, but I have always preferred the EV. A 1x12 Thiele cab with 50-100 watts pushing it sounds very full. With its sound port, the Thiele doesn't get too tubby like other closed back cabs. Having a closed back cab below an open back combo is good combination in my book.

    If you are going to use a Celestion Gold, I would suggest that you use that in the combo or make sure to use an open back cabinet. Most AlNiCo speakers fare better and last longer in an open back cab-especially ones with power handling below 50 watts. Blowing up a Fane AXA made me learn that the hard way. That was an expensive lesson.

    This is an excellent idea. I would personally be stacking the combo on top of the other cab. I usually use my 60's era Bandmaster cabs in vertical orientation as it improves my ability to hear them without blowing out the audience. I think they look cooler that way at any rate.
     

  11. bftfender

    bftfender Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 21, 2017
    York PA
    almost ditched the best amp i ever played cause of being in combo, made it into a head put it on a 2x12 and now a plexi sits in the closet. totally opened the amp up and revealed its true capabilities and another 2x12 made it even better. 1 closed 1 open =real big tone
     
    Wally likes this.

  12. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    Yes the speaker I'm now considering to go with the Celestion G12V-70 is the Weber 12F150 50watt. The celestion is 98db according to celestion site. I emailed weber and asked what the efficiency is on the 12F150 as I don't think they publish efficiency ratings. I fear I'm not going to get an answer.
     

  13. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    Although I tested the 2X12 cabinet on my Accomplice I never thought of turning it on its side for a vertical dispersion. Luckily I've got the day off from work today and have the time.
    Was gonna go out to the driving range and hit some balls in preparation for golf tourney tomorrow, but oh well...
     
    Wally likes this.

  14. radiocaster

    radiocaster Friend of Leo's

    Aug 18, 2015
    europe
    Two stacked 1x12" cabs are at least 227.513% better than a horizontal 2x12".
     
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  15. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    The cabinet has a Celestion G12M greenback and a G12H30 Anniversary in it. Should I put it with the greenback on top so the less efficient speaker is closer to ear level? Seems to make the most sense.
     

  16. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    My thoughts on trying the cabinet horizontal versus vertical. It seems like its more bass horizontally but its not. It seems the bass is a bit looser and wider dispersed. Vertically it seems like the bass is tighter. The differences are subtle though. I tested with the 2x12 cabinet connected to the Accomplice. Its surprising how much the Accomplice sounds like the old flame, telling me that the majority of tone regardless of amp is the speakers.
    The 2x12 cabinet is more mid scooped. The Celestion G12V-70 has more of a mid hump and is my preference. From what I've read about the Weber 12F150 I think they'll pair well. Vertically stacked or horizontal I do hear differences. Not one better than the other, just different.
     

  17. radiocaster

    radiocaster Friend of Leo's

    Aug 18, 2015
    europe
    You also hear the highs poorly if it's horizontal. (unless it's tilted, then nothing I've said about horizontal 2x12" cabs is true)
     

  18. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

    You'll also hear differences depending how close you are to the cabinet, whether you are on axis or off axis, how close the cabinet is to the wall, the size of the room,
    the surfaces in the room, and the flooring material. If you play out, these kinds of differences will also manifest themselves as you play in different spaces ranging from
    small stages in small clubs to outdoor venues. So I wouldn't worry too much about it-- get something you like and don't mind lugging around and live with it.
     
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  19. golfnut

    golfnut Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    58
    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    When I add a 1X12 extension to my accomplice combo the combo will sit on top of the 1x12 cabinet. So the combo speaker will be higher than the 2x12 vertically sits on the floor.
     
    radiocaster likes this.

  20. H. Mac

    H. Mac Friend of Leo's

    May 26, 2012
    Atlanta, Georgia
    I went with two 1x12 cabs. Horizontally, vertically, apart, together, or just one at a time. Same speakers or different speakers. Lots of configurations.
     

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