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2018 Tour de France

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Geoff738, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Geoff738

    Geoff738 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    54
    May 11, 2007
    Toronto
    when I first joined here and for a few years there was a whole dedicated section for le Tour. The last couple years I’m not sure there’s even been a thread some years.

    But let’s have one this year.

    I’ll only get to watch the first week. Which is a bummer, but no cable.

    What do you think of the Froom situation?

    Who do you see as the favourites?

    Cheers,
    Geoff
     
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  2. bettyseldest

    bettyseldest Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 13, 2011
    UK
    Now I'm retired I will be watching it live every day on ITV4, except for the days when we are over in France. I think it finishes in Amiens on the 14th and starts in Arras on the next day, both are about 30miles from our house in France, so hope to see at leastone of the stages live.

    Froome has to be favourite, unless he took too much out of himself in the Giro. I would like to see Geraint Thomas doing well, and whichever Yates twin is riding. Don't know if Cav is too old to equal the stage wins record of Eddie Merckx, but hope so. Sagan can be relied on to win a stage or two. Nibali, Quintana and the guy who used to be a ski jumper would be the ones to push Froome.
     
  3. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    What's the 'dope-de-jour' this year gonna be?
     
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  4. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

    A nice warm sunny day on the coast of France for the opening stage....

    pretty flat along the coast.. as usual there are some nice scenery shots from the choppers....

    just watching the medic car patch up a rider on the fly who had a fall, rider #13 , a small cut near his eye maybe some shoulder damage...... an ominous start for that guy as he rides off to try and catch up.....
     
  5. Mr.Ike

    Mr.Ike Tele-Meister

    110
    Sep 18, 2011
    Albany,NY
    Been watching the tour since the Lemond days. Rooting for Porte this year as Froome is Boring.
     
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  6. tele_pathic

    tele_pathic Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    47
    Aug 18, 2009
    St. George, UT
    Fromme? Isn’t he banned for doping? According to the NYT, there has not been a TDF back to back champion who didn’t test positive for doping since Enduran in 1995. Pathetic! I was a competitive cyclist in high school: I was the TDF religiously. Rooted vigorously for LeMond and then Armstrong. I worshipped Armstrong and vehemently defended him until it became obvious that he was a liar and a cheat. Walked away from the sport after that and haven’t been back.
     
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  7. scooteraz

    scooteraz Tele-Afflicted

    Apr 17, 2007
    Peoria, AZ
    Worked with a guy who told me he was a domestique when he was a late teen/early 20’s. He told me 30 years ago that the only guys who might not be doping in the tour were the lower level domestiques, and that they were already doping when he was part of the sport 20 years earlier.

    While he vehemently denies it, there is some evidence Greg Lemond doped.

    It is getting to the point that I have a hard time believing that any of the pro level sports don’t have a majority of folks who are either actively, or have in the past, been using PIDs.

    Nonetheless, I still watch the tour.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  8. Geoff738

    Geoff738 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    54
    May 11, 2007
    Toronto
    A few favourites lost a bunch of time today on a flat stage. Brings a bit of intrigue to the next few stages.

    Cheers,
    Geoff
     
  9. alnicopu

    alnicopu Friend of Leo's

    Oct 3, 2009
    georgia
    Ha!! Ya beat me to that one.
     
  10. koen

    koen Friend of Leo's

    May 19, 2007
    43.64 N
    Karma...
     
  11. Flaneur

    Flaneur Friend of Leo's

    May 24, 2010
    Scotland
    Did Froome keep enough in reserve, to win the Tour and Giro, in the same year? Or will Nibali- who didn't ride the Giro- make a big challenge, again? Will the cobbled stage be decisive- in a negative way, probably- for one of the favourites? Will a young rider emerge as a star? Can France finally provide another winner? Can Uran or Quintana prevail, as the South American footballers have failed?

    Loads to talk about. Vive Le Tour!
     
    alathIN likes this.
  12. raysachs

    raysachs Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2017
    Near Philly
    I guess you don't watch football or baseball or track and field or any other big money sport either? Yeah, the winners have all doped, but so have all the contenders and the vast majority of domestiques. The difference between now and 50 years ago is the quality of the drugs. They used to get by on amphetamines and stuff, and then in the mid-90s everyone started in with EPO and then blood doping and damn near everyone in the Tour had to do it or they weren't gonna be able to ride well enough to help their leaders, who had to use it to compete. Whether it's cheating if everyone is doing it is a philosophical question I guess we can all have our opinions about - it doesn't give you an advantage over anyone except those who aren't riding Le Tour. Armstrong was no more a cheater than any of his challengers - his team was just that much better at it and more ruthless, like they were with all parts of their program. Lance didn't get taken down for doping - all of his challengers were using the same stuff he was. He got taken down because he was an overwhelming a$$hole who never saw a bridge he didn't burn. Most of his contemporaries got caught at one time or another, quietly did their two year suspension, and kept racing. Lance ran out of friends and supporters so nobody had his back in the end. As he hadn't had theirs before that. If he hadn't treated Floyd like crap he probably never would have lost his medals.

    I love watching the sport. I love watching a lot of sports. I don't think any of them are clean unless there's one where PEDs don't actually help. Maybe golf or bowling? I was active in lots of sports when I was younger and was a 5000-6000 mile per year cyclist for about 10 years. I was never good enough in anything to get to the point of having to face the moral - ethical - health dilemma of whether to use PEDs or not. I'm thankful for that. Champion level athletes are a different breed and I don't want to pretend I know how I'd react to those pressures if I was one.

    -Ray
     
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  13. alathIN

    alathIN Tele-Meister

    Age:
    53
    291
    Oct 25, 2017
    Indiana
    Froome: much ado about nothing.
    Going back to the Lance/Ullrich/Pantani days, those guys were taking Epo, clembuterol - heavy duty drugs with large performance effects, that are rarely used for everyday medical conditions.
    I prescribe salbutamol, the drug Froome tested over the limit for, on a regular basis. It's a first line asthma medication. I prescribe it for pregnant women with asthma. It has a possible, debatable, performance effect if taken in large doses for long periods of time. If Froome was cheating with his asthma inhaler, he would have zero reason to do so on one single day in the Vuelta. He'd have been doing it for months while training.
    I saw Froome's presser that day in the Vuelta. He was clearly struggling to breathe. People wondered if he was I'll and would have to drop out.

    The real problem here is WADA trying to police the dosage of allowed medications. Even testing for outright banned substances is fraught with technical difficulties. Trying to figure out whether a cyclist with asthma used his inhaler four versus six times in one day by checking urine levels is not going to be even remotely accurate. If Froome was my patient, I would be extremely leery of a cycling racing organization telling him how much to use his inhaler when the man clearly cannot breathe.

    WADA is trying to do something that is pointless, impossible, and potentially dangerous. Froome/Sky was the first time they ran up against a team with the resources to prove that.

    I'm not a Froome fan, even less a Sky fan. This year's Tour would probably be more interesting without him. But UCI for once in their entire existence made the right call this time. That itself is cycling history.
     
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  14. Flaneur

    Flaneur Friend of Leo's

    May 24, 2010
    Scotland
    2dkiihe.jpg
    Here's a picture of one of my cycling heroes, caught trying to gain an unfair advantage, in the 1984 Tour, which he won. RIP, Laurent Fignon.
     
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  15. koen

    koen Friend of Leo's

    May 19, 2007
    43.64 N
    What is a ‘domestique’ in this context?
     
  16. alathIN

    alathIN Tele-Meister

    Age:
    53
    291
    Oct 25, 2017
    Indiana
    PS - I should clarify, I agree with WADA testing for the heavy-duty stuff - meds that are banned outright.

    I just think it's a fool's project to try to micromanage riders' dosages of legit, allowed meds.
     
  17. alathIN

    alathIN Tele-Meister

    Age:
    53
    291
    Oct 25, 2017
    Indiana
    A rider who rides in support of a team-mate. They might carry water or food for the team leader, bury themselves to counter-attack another team's move, or protect their leader by getting in the way of riders that might try to bump his leader off line or cut him off. If the leader has a mechanical problem, they might give him their wheel or even their whole bike.

    You absolutely cannot win a Grand Tour without strong teammates. It kind of sounds like a domestique is like a bat-boy or someone else with a trivial contribution, but a closer analogy would be an NFL lineman. The star of the team can't function unless they're good.

    "Bury themselves" - put in such a hard effort today that they will have to cruise at the back of the pack tomorrow and the next day.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    koen likes this.
  18. Geoff738

    Geoff738 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    54
    May 11, 2007
    Toronto
    Interesting perspective. Thanks for that.

    Cheers,
    Geoff
     
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  19. bodevelho

    bodevelho Tele-Meister

    132
    May 19, 2018
    EUA
    great course this year, it will be like getting two Paris-Roubaix in one season

    Now that all my picks have been eliminated in world cup I have another reason to get up at 5:00 Am and watch TV
     
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  20. raysachs

    raysachs Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2017
    Near Philly
    I'd be shocked if they're not still essentially doing stuff to increase their red blood cell supply. Whether it's EPO, or blood doping, or sleeping in oxygen tents (which is fully legal, BTW), it has similar effects. I don't really follow the state of the art in this stuff, but it seems to me that blood doping is damn near undetectable if you don't screw up and use someone else's blood, or your own really old or spoiled blood, or maybe the blood of a chimeric twin ;) And then there's HGH use, which for a long time they didn't have a test for - don't know if they do now. The bottom line is the athletes and their teams sponsors have bigger budgets and more incentive than the regulators do and I suspect they're still staying at least one or two steps ahead of them. It was almost hilarious that Floyd lost his yellow jersey for a testosterone patch considering the other far more consequential stuff he was absolutely doing in 2006. As I suspect Froome's asthma drugs are the least of what he's doing as well.

    In a few years, a newly developed test will be used to analyze these guy's blood samples and they'll discover all kinds of horrible PEDs in their systems and Phil and Paul will decry them all as horrible cheats who should rot in hell all the while they talk about how clean the sport has become by THAT point. Same as they were doing about Pantani and Virenque when Lance was racing and the same as they're doing about Lance now as they pretend the Sky train is getting by on baguettes and water, as Jaque said 50+ years ago in the midst of his five victories...

    Same as it ever was, same as it ever was...

    -Ray
     
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