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’52 Tele on Reverb – genuine or fake? Pls help!

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by RadioFM74, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    OK so I’ve compared an old and a new AVRI 52 in the flesh, and it really looks like this is a strange mix of features…
    - The neck is post-2012 (dot spacing)
    - The finish of the body really looks like a post-2012 AVRI, although it’s a bit more transparent than some and it could be the lighting;
    - It has a butt crack which post-2012 AVRI don’t normally have (none of those I’ve seen live or in pictures); but this might be due to the bridge.
    - It has a “domed” as opposed to “recessed” barrel switch tip as @10thoufirst noted. This is not a new AVRI feature, and is like old AVRIs (+ other production Fenders, like my AmStd) used to have
    - It has on the vintage six-saddle bridge that was given in the case candy of the old AVRIs but NOT with the new if what the Fender website says is correct.
    - I am not yet savvy enough to determine whether the case and case candy are rather those of a pre-2012 or post-2012, but I’ll do my homework in the weekend.

    If he hadn’t made me such a good offer, I would pass without a second thought. If he admitted to having changed parts, and explained credibly what parts have been changed, I might still be interested (as a matter of fact I liked both the new and old AVRIs), with a suitable price reduction.

    As things are, I’ve asked for the serials and I’ll check. I will travel not far from where he is in a few days, and if I ever decide to give it a go, I’ll go check in person.

    Thanks for all the help. If someone knowledgeable in AVRIs passes by and wants to chime in, I’ll be delighed. There may be more little details that might give the solution away. I unearthed a few threads by @FredDairy comparing in great detail old and new ‘52s, but unfortunately the pics he posted are no longer on. Fred, if you’re around here give us your advice :D
     

  2. harold h

    harold h Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 15, 2004
    The problem with a purchase like this is two-fold

    1) Is the guitar a fake?

    2) Is the seller legit? He has no feedback, and is in a foreign
    country. How are you going to get your money back if he sells
    you a fake or it is not as described?

    Too many variables to make a purchase like that, IMO.
     

  3. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    I agree, and your post is the nail in the coffin – I will never buy unseen.

    However, he offers a great deal and is not too far from a place I’ll have to go for work reasons. I might go and see him, take a good hard look at the guitar, and take the guitar home if it’s not a fake. Point is, (1) I’d rather not do the trip for a scam, and (2) I have to know the little tell-tale signs helping me to determine if it’s a fake or not (exact specs of cases, case candy, ……). For one, I was thinking that the case did not look right for a post-2012… on the Fender site they have a richer, purple-ish interior; but then I’ve come across pics of a post-2012s for sale that looks a lot like this one and has: butt crack, plain red case interior, and vintage six-saddles bridge as accessory! Fender inconsistencies make it very hard to tell for sure! That’s why I’m tapping in the collective wisdom and experience of the TDPRI!
     

  4. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2011
    Lewes De.
    There would be no reason to switch to a six barrel. The compensated 3 barrel on the post '12s , I have a '17, is superb in its intonation and sounds better as well.
     
    hdvades and RadioFM74 like this.

  5. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    Sure, I agree. If I buy it, the very first thing will be to ditch that little horror and to mount a proper 3-saddles with compensated brass.
     

  6. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    These two pages I’ve come across are making me think:
    - http://www.guitarjames.co.uk/product/fender-telecaster-usa-52-vintage-reissue-avri/
    - http://www.guitarjames.co.uk/product/fender-telecaster-usa-52-vintage-reissue-avri-2/

    With respect, he is not very accurate in listings. The second one is clearly an old AVRI, and is listed with the model number of the new one.

    The one in the first link, though, is practically identical to the listing I’m watching on Reverb: wide dot spacing, butt crack, vintage six-style bridge in the case-candy, same plain red case as the French tele, same switch tip (apparently not recessed). Indeed, same case candy (save for the strap that is missing in the French listing… not that I really care).

    To me, this bolsters a bit the credibility of the French listing … they would have had to fake the guitar in the exact same manner! Or it’s the same guitar (I’ll know as soon as I get the serial n°…).

    If both guitars are legit, it’s as if there has been some sort of “transition” between the old AVRI and the new one? Or at least some inconsistency in minor appointments in the new AVRI line? Anyone knows about anything like that? I’m a bit puzzled…
     

  7. Richie-string

    Richie-string Tele-Meister

    Just on the point generally about buying a Fender guitar that's second hand, man how fraught with trepidation has it become over the past few years. All Fender buyers have to go through this ritual now when looking at second hand Fenders, the first time you look at any pictures all you are trying to do is establish if it's even a legitimate guitar or are you about to blow a massive hole in the bank account on a guitar that isn't what you thought it was. A lot of times it's made harder by the fact that all the parts on the guitar have actually come from Fender but you just don't know if they all came from the same Fender, or whether your guitar is built up from several different guitars. This then in terms of its resale value is nearly as bad as buying a outright fake.

    To be honest it sort of puts me off buying a used Fender anymore, i just think am i better off saving the extra and getting a new one, yeah it's a few hundred quid/bucks more but at least i know i can sale it again when i fancy a change of guitar.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  8. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    All true. The reason I insist on buying used is my belief that doing your homework saves you from fakes in 99,9% of the cases, and that buying used (prudently) is the only way not to lose out significantly once you decide to flip your guitar.

    In this particular case, the deal I'm being offered is too good to pass unless it's a fake. And the jury is still out!
     
    badfish_lewis and Richie-string like this.

  9. Richie-string

    Richie-string Tele-Meister

    Yes that's a good point, i much prefer to buy second hand if i can get one, it makes your money go so much further and enable you to maybe buy a guitar that would have been out of reach otherwise. And like you say the proper preparation is all important.

    It's just become so much of a bigger problem in the last few years, it's a shame that we have to even think about this sort of thing. I'm sure in many cases even the seller bought the guitar in good faith and is selling it in the real belief that it's all quite legit.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  10. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    Yes, I've seen cases like that. Not all those who own a Fender are guitar nerds like us :lol:

    And seeing the odd set-up of the 6-saddles bridge on this one, I suspect that my seller might fall in the category "not a Tele geek". Which reminds me: I forgot to ask him if he bought new or pre-owned.
     

  11. ronzhd

    ronzhd Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    156
    Nov 16, 2008
    Spring, Texas
    I agree with others on here, bust off the neck and pick guard, get all the numbers and then make a decision, if Dude doesn't want to do that... then maybe he's hiding something.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  12. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    I certainly will take off pickguard and control plate. Neck too if he permits that. But what would I look for? What are the tell-tales of a post-2012 body or electronics under the hood? That's a genuine question to AVRI experts out there!
     

  13. joshigh

    joshigh Tele-Meister

    369
    Jun 10, 2003
    Plant City, FL
    What about the pube in the first pic, by the volume knob.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  14. ronzhd

    ronzhd Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    156
    Nov 16, 2008
    Spring, Texas
    The neck date stamp would be a clue, you can also follow a trail from the serial numbers on the pups, there might possibly be scrawled number in the neck pocket. These are all clues. If red flags pop up, then there you go, if everything adds up then where is your comfort level.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  15. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    Cloth, polish and latex gloves will take care of that :p
     

  16. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    Thanks!
     

  17. Twang Tone

    Twang Tone Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    45
    Apr 15, 2005
    UK
    The Op is "looking for a used Pure Vintage 52". So I guess he wants a newer model PV52 Tele (model 011-0202-850 since August 2012 body stamped: 93577, neck stamped: 92973) and not a 010-0202-850 model (the older AV52RI Tele, made from: 1998-2012 body stamped: 18354, neck stamped: 53779).

    This Tele looks like one of the last 2011/12 010-0202-850 models, based on the finish, switch tip and pickguard. Those final 2012 010-0202-850 AV52RI Teles also had the twelfth fret dots in the 1953 position (i.e. directly under the A and B strings) as the PV52 Tele does today.

    I'd look elsewhere if you are "looking for a used Pure Vintage 52" - this isn't one of those.
     
    BrandonIke, Teleterr and RadioFM74 like this.

  18. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    Hi @Twang Tone. Precious info! I totally ignored that there were late “old model AVRIs” with the wide dot spacing! If only I could give a double “like” to your post I’d do it!

    Actually, if you’re right it ALL makes sense, and it’s a legit old AVRI52. In which case, I guess that I’m interested because:
    a) Trying one side to side with a “PV”, I thought that I liked both practically the same, and;
    b) The deal I am being proposed, involving a gear swap, is just PERFECT.

    So, could you tell me more about those “transitional” 010-0202-850 models?
    - I know that the body had a poly undercoat on those, but is the neck all nitro? I may be mistaken, but maple necks normally don’t have undercoats… right?
    - Is the neck profile more like old AVRIs or more like new AVRIs? Actually, they’re quite close, so this might not mean too much…
     

  19. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Holic

    702
    Apr 10, 2015
    Italy and Switzerland
    More nitty gritty on AV52s vs PV52s. Even with the AV52 converted to modern wiring, the caps are different.

    Old AVRI:

    AVRI52 MODERN WIRING.JPG

    PV52 wired control plate (or so the site says):

    Pure Vintage 52 Loaded Control Plate.jpg
     

  20. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2011
    Lewes De.
    The pre '12s have a medium C neck , new more like a D, much, much thicker. If you re finding the necks similar, theres something amiss.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

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