Multifple guitar players in band--Who plays what?

Pickalittle · November 22nd, 2007, 03:05 PM

I play lead in a large church. Our usual band includes piano, keyboard, bass, drums, percussion and back-up vocals. Often I'm the only guitarist so get to play a wide range of sounds and it stands out.
This weekend our worship leader (from piano) will be sharing with a touring CCM leader on guitar.
My quesion is, for those of you who play with multiple guitars, how do split up the playing so you are not stepping on each other? How do you keep from muddying up the subtle (and pretty, emotional) things being played by the acoustic or lead or even rhythm without playing over each other.
Though I'm a lead, I also play chunky rhythm or subtle clean, so what do we do with the other electric? we don't have stricked assignments (I'll play lead only, you play rhythm).
The set this weekend is more reflective and less rocky.
Just interested in how you guys like to work it.

Pesty · November 22nd, 2007, 03:12 PM

I almost always play with another guitarist in my church, and we've found there's two key things we do. If one is playing open chords, the other plays barre chords (plus one octave if possible.) The other thing is to use patches that sound different, (one clean, one with a bit of a crunch distortion)

The worst is when you have two guitarists playing the exact same chords with a similar sounding patch. It just amplifies any mistakes either one does.

Just comunicate well and I wish you the best!

giantslayer · November 22nd, 2007, 06:16 PM

First, you want to make sure that you can hear each other in your monitors or whatnot. I recommend having one person playing open chords/power chords and having the other person playing higher barre chords, partial chords on high frets (like 0-0-14-14-14-0 for an A), or doing leads. Other options for differentiation include effects like wah, phaser, chorus, etc (just don't overdo it) or clean/dirty. If you've got more tonal flexibility (like if you're using MFX's), then you could have one person on a brighter combo and the other running a darker halfstack tone.

Just read that you're doing more reflective type of stuff. I'd say that one person below the 5th fret and the other person above it is a good way to divide things for that type of stuff. Also, depending on whether it's mellow reflective or intense reflective, you could have one person putting down some overdriven chords/power chords down on the bottom of the fretboard and have the other playing cleaner higher stuff or leads.

BellyBoy · November 23rd, 2007, 07:37 PM

we often have 4 guitars on stage at our church, one acoustic and sometimes 3 electrics. We all play in different positions with different shadings of tone...
The most important thing when playing with other guitars is that if you aren't sure what to play... don't play... there is no shame in stepping out on a section of the song rather than clutter it up. There are times when we will have only two of the 4 guitars playing on a section of the song... or just the acoustic... this is a great way to build dynamics as well. As you add a guitar to the mix it adds to the dynamic of the music... keep adding and it keeps building... but it is important to find your spot in the song and stay out of the others way. Sometimes that means just playing a triad here or there.
We are very lucky to have several accomplished guitarists on our team, and they always seem to find a place to play.
Remember to listen above all else.

hotraman · November 23rd, 2007, 09:40 PM

At my church, it varies from week to week with the amount of guitars.
Usually its one acoustic and two electrics.
Since I lead, I'll play an electric that offers different tone:
Strat w/ Gibson 335
PRS w/ Tele
My T5 w/ another acoustic.

For us, listening to each other and talking about what we want to sound like is crucial. You want to avoid the "wall of sound" issue.
Dynamics, effects and volume are thought about.

When the service starts, we start to play and flow.
Its been really good for us, no ego or rock stars playing on our worship bands.

Now add a dobro or mandolin to have fun.
Like Sam Bush or AKUS?

GoldieLocks · November 23rd, 2007, 10:07 PM

I usually end up playing with another guitar player in Church. I like when its 1 acoustic/1 electric. 2 electrics are very confusing to most Soundmen. Most Churches I've attended they just shut them both off

Its important to make it obvious to the soundguy who's Lead & who's rhythm. of course all this depends on the size of your church. A small church can sometimes get away with more.

hotraman · November 24th, 2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I usually end up playing with another guitar player in Church. I like when its 1 acoustic/1 electric. 2 electrics are very confusing to most Soundmen. Most Churches I've attended they just shut them both off

Its important to make it obvious to the soundguy who's Lead & who's rhythm. of course all this depends on the size of your church. A small church can sometimes get away with more.

This is a great tip:
I will even bring the sound guys down to look at the rigs, and help them learn to listen for specific guitar parts. A lot of them just set levels and then sit back.
We map out each song for the mixers, so they know what instrument needs to be emphasized. Sometimes its the guitar, other times its a keyboard.

GoldieLocks · November 25th, 2007, 12:34 PM

I've been studying mixing 2 guitars (for recording).

I keep going to the Black Crowes as a reference. Good luck getting your soundguys to actually listen to a well mixed band. I tried it several times.
But if you can...try to find a band that sounds kind of like Your church band. The main thing I learned is "thin out them rhythm guitars - and fatten up those leads".

Blue rodeo (from Canada) is one of my other fav 2 guitar mixes.
Skynyrd had some good 3 guitar parts as well.

eedwards · November 25th, 2007, 03:14 PM

We normally run 1 electric and 1 acoustic in our band. Sometimes there are 2 acoustics. I always play acoustic and if the lead is strumming chords, I'll fingerpick the chords. If we are both playing acoustic, I just follow the lead guy and do what he isn't doing. I always ask what the others plan to do and usually I get "Whatever feels right". Hard to plan on that, so I just hang back if needed. I'll always stop if it sounds muddy to me.

Holly'sMan · November 25th, 2007, 04:21 PM

We have both acoustic and electric, which is what I play. I think the main thing is to listen to the song and play a different voice than the other guitar. Whether you are playing "lead" or whatever. There is some great worship team instructional video on you tube done by Paul Baloche that speaks to this really well. It is worth checking out..

blacklinefish · November 25th, 2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giantslayer

I'd say that one person below the 5th fret and the other person above it is a good way to divide things for that type of stuff.

I'd say that this is a good place to start, draw a line on the fretboard and agree to not cross it. It could actually be fun if the other guitarist has a sense of humor about it.

I have one more suggestion. If the other guitarist is all strummy-strummy-open-chordy, then you should not play any chords that use more than 3-4 strings. Stick to just 2-3 mostly. It will open up some voicings, and force you to be creative as well.

--gh

Brian Krashpad · November 25th, 2007, 08:12 PM

In church we had one guy that was an acoustic-electric rhythm-only guy. I did whatever else, either bass or rhythm or lead.

In my rock bands where we have multiple guitarists that don't have a static assigned role we tend to do things by feel. If the song had any solos we would figure out who was gong to play that and who was going to play rhythm underneath it, but other than that if the other guy wanted to play open chords, I'd play barre chords or some little repeating line, or only play a little lead-ish thing between vocal lines. Main thing is just to not all be doing the same thing at once, unless the chug-chug is what you're going for.

Pickalittle · November 25th, 2007, 08:58 PM

I re-read my post and forgot to mention the most important part. We also had a guy playing beside me on electric. So one acoustic, and two electrics. (All your comments still work for the extra electric too.)

This past weekend went o.k. We pretty much stayed out of each other's way, and as Goldilocks suggested, I think, the sound man kept the rhythm low and the lead higher for dynamics.

uncletele · November 26th, 2007, 06:22 PM

We always have two guitarists on, and I usually lead the service, but not always. Here's my philosophy; less is more. Many inexperienced players overplay, or play inappropriately for the song. Always play what serves the song at hand, and that could be not at all. Above all, listen. Be willing to adjust to the other player's short-comings. No guitar-slingers in church (hopefully).

Pickalittle · November 28th, 2007, 12:48 PM

Great input gents.

Uncletele: Regarding your comment: "Be willing to adjust to the other player's short-comings," I need to admit that no amount of adjustment could have covered the other guy's short-comings on Sunday. He played out of tune (even when the guitar was pretty much in tune--string bending while chording?) and either had distortion or chorus on most of the time.

Most every musician at our church is a delight to play with as they are excellent musicians and fun to work with. It left me with a couple of thoughts after a rather frustrating worship experience:

1.) Not everyone who picks up a guitar is necessarily a musician or has a sense of musicality and seeks to perfect his craft.
2.) Regarding church worship teams, it is also about relationships and more about lifting the Lord up than playing with professionalism. But still....

I practice my worship sets for hours even before showing up for group practice, but not everyone takes it that seriously. We play to thousands of worshippers on our assigned weekends with 5 services, so professionalism is important, but not THE thing, necessarily.

Preacher · November 28th, 2007, 03:31 PM

at my church we have two guitars, usually I play electric and the young man (who is better than me but less experienced) plays acoustic.
There is an occasion where he wil bust out his Oscar Schmidt Delta Blues guitar and play a chord or solo riff but it is one song usually, not the whole set. At that time I will play some fill stuff and pretty much take the backseat to him.

Last Sunday though was a whole other operation. See I just finished up my Tele (I usually play the Squier '51 or a LP as my main gitars) so I decide to bring it to play. Well the young man is also building a tele, and though mine was finished (other than headstock logo) his was not but was ready to play. Now we had a problem TWO telecasters playing at the same time that sound really really alike.
We played a couple of songs, then the worship leader had him switch to neck pup and me to the bridge, it worked a while but I finally went to the '51 and played in humbucker mode.
So I guess I would say, multiple eletrics are OK as long as they are different types of guitars with different pick up characteristics, when they are the same, you are in trouble.

November 22nd, 2007, 03:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Pickalittle Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Age: 56 Posts: 292	Multifple guitar players in band--Who plays what? I play lead in a large church. Our usual band includes piano, keyboard, bass, drums, percussion and back-up vocals. Often I'm the only guitarist so get to play a wide range of sounds and it stands out. This weekend our worship leader (from piano) will be sharing with a touring CCM leader on guitar. My quesion is, for those of you who play with multiple guitars, how do split up the playing so you are not stepping on each other? How do you keep from muddying up the subtle (and pretty, emotional) things being played by the acoustic or lead or even rhythm without playing over each other. Though I'm a lead, I also play chunky rhythm or subtle clean, so what do we do with the other electric? we don't have stricked assignments (I'll play lead only, you play rhythm). The set this weekend is more reflective and less rocky. Just interested in how you guys like to work it. __________________ Don't die with the music still in you! Psalm 150

November 23rd, 2007, 07:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
BellyBoy Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chula Vista, Ca Age: 48 Posts: 574	we often have 4 guitars on stage at our church, one acoustic and sometimes 3 electrics. We all play in different positions with different shadings of tone... The most important thing when playing with other guitars is that if you aren't sure what to play... don't play... there is no shame in stepping out on a section of the song rather than clutter it up. There are times when we will have only two of the 4 guitars playing on a section of the song... or just the acoustic... this is a great way to build dynamics as well. As you add a guitar to the mix it adds to the dynamic of the music... keep adding and it keeps building... but it is important to find your spot in the song and stay out of the others way. Sometimes that means just playing a triad here or there. We are very lucky to have several accomplished guitarists on our team, and they always seem to find a place to play. Remember to listen above all else. __________________ http://www.johnnymannion.com http://www.myspace.com/johnnymannionband

November 23rd, 2007, 09:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
hotraman Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Camas, WA Posts: 220	At my church, it varies from week to week with the amount of guitars. Usually its one acoustic and two electrics. Since I lead, I'll play an electric that offers different tone: Strat w/ Gibson 335 PRS w/ Tele My T5 w/ another acoustic. For us, listening to each other and talking about what we want to sound like is crucial. You want to avoid the "wall of sound" issue. Dynamics, effects and volume are thought about. When the service starts, we start to play and flow. Its been really good for us, no ego or rock stars playing on our worship bands. Now add a dobro or mandolin to have fun. Like Sam Bush or AKUS? __________________ www.stevehotra.com

November 23rd, 2007, 10:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
GoldieLocks Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Posts: 833	2 guitars in church? I usually end up playing with another guitar player in Church. I like when its 1 acoustic/1 electric. 2 electrics are very confusing to most Soundmen. Most Churches I've attended they just shut them both off Its important to make it obvious to the soundguy who's Lead & who's rhythm. of course all this depends on the size of your church. A small church can sometimes get away with more. __________________ "How little I know inspires me tremendously! I'm a huge fan of other people's playing." Bonnie Raitt

November 25th, 2007, 12:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
GoldieLocks Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Posts: 833	2 guitars I've been studying mixing 2 guitars (for recording). I keep going to the Black Crowes as a reference. Good luck getting your soundguys to actually listen to a well mixed band. I tried it several times. But if you can...try to find a band that sounds kind of like Your church band. The main thing I learned is "thin out them rhythm guitars - and fatten up those leads". Blue rodeo (from Canada) is one of my other fav 2 guitar mixes. Skynyrd had some good 3 guitar parts as well. __________________ "How little I know inspires me tremendously! I'm a huge fan of other people's playing." Bonnie Raitt

November 22nd, 2007, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pesty Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 317	I almost always play with another guitarist in my church, and we've found there's two key things we do. If one is playing open chords, the other plays barre chords (plus one octave if possible.) The other thing is to use patches that sound different, (one clean, one with a bit of a crunch distortion) The worst is when you have two guitarists playing the exact same chords with a similar sounding patch. It just amplifies any mistakes either one does. Just comunicate well and I wish you the best!

November 22nd, 2007, 06:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
giantslayer Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Age: 22 Posts: 273	First, you want to make sure that you can hear each other in your monitors or whatnot. I recommend having one person playing open chords/power chords and having the other person playing higher barre chords, partial chords on high frets (like 0-0-14-14-14-0 for an A), or doing leads. Other options for differentiation include effects like wah, phaser, chorus, etc (just don't overdo it) or clean/dirty. If you've got more tonal flexibility (like if you're using MFX's), then you could have one person on a brighter combo and the other running a darker halfstack tone. Just read that you're doing more reflective type of stuff. I'd say that one person below the 5th fret and the other person above it is a good way to divide things for that type of stuff. Also, depending on whether it's mellow reflective or intense reflective, you could have one person putting down some overdriven chords/power chords down on the bottom of the fretboard and have the other playing cleaner higher stuff or leads.

November 25th, 2007, 03:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
eedwards TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Alabaster, AL Age: 38 Posts: 55	We normally run 1 electric and 1 acoustic in our band. Sometimes there are 2 acoustics. I always play acoustic and if the lead is strumming chords, I'll fingerpick the chords. If we are both playing acoustic, I just follow the lead guy and do what he isn't doing. I always ask what the others plan to do and usually I get "Whatever feels right". Hard to plan on that, so I just hang back if needed. I'll always stop if it sounds muddy to me.

November 25th, 2007, 04:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
Holly'sMan TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Salem,Oregon Age: 54 Posts: 12	We have both acoustic and electric, which is what I play. I think the main thing is to listen to the song and play a different voice than the other guitar. Whether you are playing "lead" or whatever. There is some great worship team instructional video on you tube done by Paul Baloche that speaks to this really well. It is worth checking out..

November 25th, 2007, 08:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
Brian Krashpad Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: GVL FLA USA Posts: 613 39 Photos	In church we had one guy that was an acoustic-electric rhythm-only guy. I did whatever else, either bass or rhythm or lead. In my rock bands where we have multiple guitarists that don't have a static assigned role we tend to do things by feel. If the song had any solos we would figure out who was gong to play that and who was going to play rhythm underneath it, but other than that if the other guy wanted to play open chords, I'd play barre chords or some little repeating line, or only play a little lead-ish thing between vocal lines. Main thing is just to not all be doing the same thing at once, unless the chug-chug is what you're going for. __________________ Visit Crash Pad at: http://go.to/CrashPad http://www.myspace.com/CrashPad Gear List/Pics: http://www.geocities.com/bkrashpad/brian.html Read a review: http://www.ink19.com/issues/july2002.../crashPad.html Side Bands: http://www.myspace.com/HoytAndTheHotHeads http://www.myspace.com/DynamiteCharade

November 25th, 2007, 08:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
Pickalittle Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Age: 56 Posts: 292	I re-read my post and forgot to mention the most important part. We also had a guy playing beside me on electric. So one acoustic, and two electrics. (All your comments still work for the extra electric too.) This past weekend went o.k. We pretty much stayed out of each other's way, and as Goldilocks suggested, I think, the sound man kept the rhythm low and the lead higher for dynamics. __________________ Don't die with the music still in you! Psalm 150 Last edited by Pickalittle; November 26th, 2007 at 02:52 PM.

November 26th, 2007, 06:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
uncletele Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: carlisle, pa Posts: 121	We always have two guitarists on, and I usually lead the service, but not always. Here's my philosophy; less is more. Many inexperienced players overplay, or play inappropriately for the song. Always play what serves the song at hand, and that could be not at all. Above all, listen. Be willing to adjust to the other player's short-comings. No guitar-slingers in church (hopefully).

November 28th, 2007, 12:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pickalittle Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Age: 56 Posts: 292	Great input gents. Uncletele: Regarding your comment: "Be willing to adjust to the other player's short-comings," I need to admit that no amount of adjustment could have covered the other guy's short-comings on Sunday. He played out of tune (even when the guitar was pretty much in tune--string bending while chording?) and either had distortion or chorus on most of the time. Most every musician at our church is a delight to play with as they are excellent musicians and fun to work with. It left me with a couple of thoughts after a rather frustrating worship experience: 1.) Not everyone who picks up a guitar is necessarily a musician or has a sense of musicality and seeks to perfect his craft. 2.) Regarding church worship teams, it is also about relationships and more about lifting the Lord up than playing with professionalism. But still.... I practice my worship sets for hours even before showing up for group practice, but not everyone takes it that seriously. We play to thousands of worshippers on our assigned weekends with 5 services, so professionalism is important, but not THE thing, necessarily. __________________ Don't die with the music still in you! Psalm 150 Last edited by Pickalittle; December 5th, 2007 at 12:34 PM.

November 28th, 2007, 03:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
Preacher Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma Age: 40 Posts: 245	at my church we have two guitars, usually I play electric and the young man (who is better than me but less experienced) plays acoustic. There is an occasion where he wil bust out his Oscar Schmidt Delta Blues guitar and play a chord or solo riff but it is one song usually, not the whole set. At that time I will play some fill stuff and pretty much take the backseat to him. Last Sunday though was a whole other operation. See I just finished up my Tele (I usually play the Squier '51 or a LP as my main gitars) so I decide to bring it to play. Well the young man is also building a tele, and though mine was finished (other than headstock logo) his was not but was ready to play. Now we had a problem TWO telecasters playing at the same time that sound really really alike. We played a couple of songs, then the worship leader had him switch to neck pup and me to the bridge, it worked a while but I finally went to the '51 and played in humbucker mode. So I guess I would say, multiple eletrics are OK as long as they are different types of guitars with different pick up characteristics, when they are the same, you are in trouble. __________________ So many guitars... so little time.