Sunday Morning Players -- Special Guidelines

[TDPRI]

I have received complaints from members that feel that the Sunday Morning Players forum is heavily influenced by evangelical Christians and that many people of other religions do not feel comfortable posting here. This was not my intent when starting this forum. However, I have heard the complaints and want to be sure that everyone here realizes that this is not the "Christian Guitar Forum" and certainly not the "Evangelical Christian Guitar Forum."

I am also changing the name of the forum again as well. Not all religions meet for worship on Sunday and so this is an issue to consider. Plus, I have reworded the subheading of the forum to help clarify what is and is not allowed in this forum.

This forum was established to give people that play guitar and other instruments in religious services a place to discuss this unique type of "gig." It's not a place to discuss religious theology. There are other guitar forums that fulfill that type of posting on the internet and if you feel you must discuss religious beliefs I expect you to do so at a more appropriate place someplace else.

People of all religions that play in worship services of all kinds are welcome to post here. I hope that all of you will respect the rules of the entire TDPRI here and treat everyone, regardless of religious affiliation, the respect they are certainly due.

[Rick Towne]

I'm curious as to whether this will make any practical difference. I doubt that it will. The contemporary worship music world (US-UK-CAN-AUS-EURO) is almost all evangelical/charismatic/pentecostal, and I recall seeing very few posts here in the latter (i.e. gospel) area. The Catholic stream is very similar to the less edgy CCM and folky John Michael Talbot style. I recall one thread that involved a Jewish player who played in a church worship band, which led to the often-discussed "do you have to be a believer to be in the band" debate. Ten years ago there were several active discussion sites (worshiptalk.com, worshiptogether.com) about worship music. Today, there is not much, and this is perhaps the biggest; it must mean that there is divine favor on the Telecaster (but we already knew that).

By the way, Buck, I'm in the Valley too.

[Rick Towne]

....

[Trimmed&Burnin]

Dear Paul and all TDPRI members,
I would hope that I have always treated everyone here with respect. It has never been my intention to be "inclusive" or "exclusive" on any level. I would, and have, worked to defend the right of anyone to practice or not to practice any religon that they choose. I really did not think that this was a forum just for Christians but because of the name and because of a thread that I had previously read I "Assumed" that it was ok to respond to some of the questions that were directed at me, in this way I am guilty of stepping over the line and probably largly responsable for this mess. I honestly thought that it was ok as long as it was kept in the Sunday Morning Players section, perhaps you will notice that I dont sign off with religous symbols or scripture. Please accept my appology and know that I will respect your wishes. I am saddened by the mess that you now have to clean up, I am sorry to have offended anyone. Having said that in all sincerity I would like to point out that offense is something that one has to make an effort to pick up and decide to carry as it is usually not intended as offense.
Respectfully,
Shannon Coberly

[TDPRI]

Shannon, thanks but that is not necessary. It's an overall perception about the forum. And, it seems one that some have a hard time discerning between talking about playing guitar in a worship service and discussing the contents of the message of the worship service.

I'm just trying to refocus the forum to its original intent when I created it.

I see plenty of posts that clearly are within the guidelines of the forum and not very many that are outside of those lines.

[popthree]

Originally Posted by Trimmed&Burnin

I am guilty of stepping over the line and probably largly responsable for this mess.

there are plenty of us who post here who have been skirting the borderline of appropriate content. for me, i think i will just try and keep out of this particular part of the tdpri in the future. i don't think i can post in this particular part of the forum and stay inside the lines.

[klasaine]

As one of the Jews who plays fairly regularly in "church", I would just like to say that I've always felt very welcomed here, and in church - afterall, a tele player's a tele player. I'll agree that the category name change is probably a little more politically correct.

[ibobunot]

You have the "Strat-Talk" forum how about a "Worship Service Players" forum?

They could have an off topic forum (The Good Dog Cafe?) for discussing religious topics..

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by klasaine

I'll agree that the category name change is probably a little more politically correct.

Thanks for that. Other Jewish members felt the "church" and "Sunday" were totally exclusive of their participation.

[LesPaulGuy]

I, too, feel the TDPRI is entitled to make this change in format and I appreciate the upfront way in which it was done. I truly found this forum to be an "oasis" and enjoy the discourse immensely. Periodically the rules and guidelines need to be put forth and we need to be reminded of its intent and purpose.

It is correct that there are many other websites and forums available to us "evangelicals" if we so desire, but I still embrace this format and hope that those of different faiths continue to contribute.

Bruce

[TDPRI]

Thank you Bruce. I very much appreciate the support. It means a great deal to me.

[Rick Towne]

Where do you play in the Los Angeles area?

[LesPaulGuy]

Originally Posted by popthree

there are plenty of us who post here who have been skirting the borderline of appropriate content. for me, i think i will just try and keep out of this particular part of the tdpri in the future. i don't think i can post in this particular part of the forum and stay inside the lines.

I may only speak for myself, but I definitely assumed that this forum was geared towards Christian Tele players, as we're the ones that primarily play on Sunday mornings! Based on that assumption I'm sure that most of us felt we could be a little more outspoken about our faith than we normally would on other forums. After all, we're just a bunch of players that happened to have a little more in common than our Teles.

I welcome the interaction of those that felt on the outside before this change, because being part of a musical group playing for any "service" definitely has its own unique set challenges. Here's to what we do have in common - the Telecaster! Hip, hip, hooray!

[BellyBoy]

Paul, You have always been fair with me and I believe you are being fair here. I for one welcome the interaction between the different beliefs. Maybe some will understand how much we all have in common, instead of what our differences are. Let's let the Tele bring us all together.

[imwjl]

I don't think anybody has to be apologetic because this whole site in one way or another gets Paul's goal of a nice and civil place.

OTOH, I realized I did get questions that were directly about my occasional playing at a Jewish community center answered in other areas, and I suppose people here who know about sound and PA systems could have helped fast and directly.

Most important might be that some people I told or sent links to who lead worship and summer camps in my Jewish community did comment that they didn't feel comfortable like I did, and this is Paul's business and we all appreciate it so if he gets better stats with his advertising and some donations it helps all and same if it puts off an occasional hot thread.

I also think building community is important. The true importance of that did not dawn on me until I started doing a lot of volunteer work outside of my religious community - mostly civic and for people with problems. I've seen posts here (TDPRI in general) directly and indirectly over mental health, family, marital, parenting, loss and illness issues and responses that made me think that people really did benefit. If any change can make somebody feel included, part of something good or happy it has done what our religions say we should do.

Bottom line: If any change helps Paul's business, keeps the site in general here and builds community and decency it's all good.

Thank you.

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by Rick Towne

Where do you play in the Los Angeles area?

When I do worship services (to augment the ensemble, special events and/or sub) they're for Shepard of the Hills in Brentwood, Act's in Santa Monica and Calvary in Canoga Park/WH. Occasionally I'll also do something for the diocese in L.A. as well as teach a jazz ensemble a couple hours a week at a private Jewish high school in town - Milken Community High connected with the Stephan S. Wise Temple.

[Rick Towne]

K...

Thanks for the information. I aven't played at any of those but we probably have acquaintances in common. I live several miles from Calvary. Do you bassist Peewee Hill? I think he and his keyboardist wife Michiko, are at Shepherd.

[klasaine]

I did a gig with Peewee at one of the "Shepherd's" congregation's home about 3 weeks ago. Shepherd has a large stable of players and several 'campuses'. I also did a recording session for one of their singers/w.leaders (John Fluker) a couple of weeks ago. A+ players and great folks to make music with. I'm honored that they call me.

[Dr. T]

Well, I have to say that the original names of the forum - "Sunday Morning Superstars" and "Sunday Morning Players" led me to believe that it was geared specifically toward Christian musicians in "worship bands" like myself. It's perfectly o.k. with me that it's not, and the newest name certainly does better indicate the intended inclusion. I'm just not about to indulge in any mea culpas for posting in line with the conclusion that the name "Sunday Morning Players" led me to.

[hotraman]

Personally,
I think it s a good thing to have guidelines regarding " Worship Service Players" forum. If I want/need to go deeper into specific Christian perspectives with music, I'll take a visit to some others forums.
This site is great for how we play our Teles, in a worship setting.
Worship leading, whether you play on Sat, Sun, etc presents unique challenges.
I value all opinions as long as they are presented in a respectful manner.
Thanks for not shutting this section down.
Steve

[sax4blues]

One of the things I really like about TDPRI seems to be one of the big challenges for Paul.

The group in general is very knowledgeable, articulate, and respectful on a wide range of subjects. So we end up with threads about A-Rod, missing a loved cat, Chevy Camaro, Growing peppers, ... and on and on. This willingness to ask/share in a good environment is really special. The challenge in working with knowledgeable, articulate people is sometimes it's like herding cats. One gets their tail stepped on by accident and the cat herdsman has to calm things down.

It would be easy and simple to just say "music only". But then I probably wouldn't visit as often. I applaud the work done here to keep this a great place to visit.

[Doug Ferguson]

"Worship Service Players" seems perfectly acceptable. Even within a religious tradition, worship may take place on days other than Sunday. It seems to me that broading the title of this forum should encouage more particpation from those who help lead worship services through music, particularly played on guitar, regardless of their religion. Besides, the common ground of TDPRI is love of guitars, especially tele's. That's what led me here, at any rate. And as pointed out in an earlier post, there are other forums in which to discuss religion. I wish most of them were as well moderated to maintain civil discourse as TDPRI.