Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy?

[refin]

Electric guitars In Church
Solos In Church
Flame Painted guitars In Church
Effects In Church
Modern Worship In Church
Drums In Church
Pizzas In Church (Ha.....threw that in to see if you were paying attention)


Not weary of the threads,but all the musical anxiety and worry that attaches itself like leeches once inside the church?
How many play professionally,and were shocked at all the litter box fodder and "straining at gnats" controversy about the most trivial things when offering to play worship?And,coming from those who couldn't play a C scale on a piano?
How many felt like aliens in a strange world when confronted with all of this cowpie-o-rama?
C'mon,be honest....don't make me look like the only weirdo bold enough to speak out!

[tonebender]

I totally agree with you and am glad you spoke up on this. I'm fairly new to this forum but not new to playing in church, I've been playing my Electric guitar in church since I was 14 and i sucked back then but that isn't the point. I don't come to play for Pastor ______ to make him happy, no I come to play for the Lord and bring people into worship. If I have to "only play acoustic" or "can't use effects" ect because someone might get offended, then I've missed it because then I'm playing to impress people and not playing to what God has placed on my heart. We all have gifts and should use them to the best that we possibly can. Does this make any sense? I've seen some small trivial stuff, but to me its more like water off a ducks back and don't get bent out of shape over it. "Just smile and wave" lol

[popthree]

i feel that much of what many of these threads you have listed are born from is our own introspective struggles, attempting to find where we, individually, fit into worship with our gifts. unfortunately, our humanness tends to come out as traditions and comfort zones are challenged. who is suprised to find regular ole humans with issues in church....or struggling with church...?

[gbeals]

I agree with all three of the posts. Like pretty much everything in society, you can never please everyone. That said, it IS our jobs as Christians to please the Lord. It's not about how loud, soft, overdriven, wah'ed out, good, bad etc. we play but the simple fact that the gift of music can reach other peoples hearts and lead them closer to Christ. If Rap music can lead a person to Christ then it is ok. Rap wouldn't do it for me but everybody is different. I believe that we as church musicians need to walk a fine line (and sometimes double edged blade) between making sure our music doesn't offend the more than it pleases. It is a tough row to hoe many times. However, God knows where our hearts are and that is what is important.

[refin]

I remember an incident many years ago (late '70s?)when I was at a church with a "band" (we had drums!).The pastor was on a personal crusade against rock music,but this was back in the "It's that demon jungle beat!" era.
One day the drummer was in the sanctuary practicing by himself,singing the songs to himself and playing the drum part....the pastor walked in from his office and said "Could you please refrain from playing that worldly rock beat?"
The drummer (good friend of mine) replied,"I was playing I Will Call Upon The Lord" (a song we did almost every Sunday).
That and other examples eventually shot down the "beat" theory.Funny.

[sax4blues]

These threads have helped me realize how fortunate I am at our church.

We have a pretty conservative Lutheran church in California; pastors wear robes, singing from hymnal with organ.

Then 6 years ago we began a second contemporary service. Acoustic and electric guitars, electric base, drums, piano, flute/sax. We've used it all, distortion, wah, solos, all within a very tasteful worshipful manner. We integrate video with music and sermons.

The next two weeks we are doing a major overhaul of our sound system. Digital board, in-ear monitor, relocating sound room.

This all seems "normal" to me. Yet I talk with others and also read these threads and realize how divided we can get over so many things.

I'm very glad for this disucussion to help keep us all connected even though we may be talking about differences. Just think what would happen if we stop talking about these differences.

[franchelB]

I would've voted for "pizza"...(taken from acoustic guitar forum.com)
Having read through most of these church related music issues, I think most of us worry too much about the most minute things! Sometimes, I wonder why we're even doing music ministry in the first place?!
And it's not just in church when we worry about those little things, but my goodness...
I wonder what would happen if we stopped worrying about those things and actually practiced our instruments instead?

[teleman53]

I'm reminded of a song by Clay Crosse:

So many preachers
So many churches and denominations
Got their opinions and their documents
And statements and beliefs and sometimes
There's a miscommunication

And we complicate the truth
And convolute the story
But as far as I recall
I do believe it all

Chorus:
Comes down to a man dying on a cross
Saving the world
Rising from the dead
Doing what He said He would do
Loving everyone He saw
When it's said and done it all
Comes down to a man dying on a cross
Saving the world

It isn't a secret
And maybe I'm being simple minded
But it's about Jesus and a way, a truth, a life
That can change a heart and a soul forever
And we need to be reminded

It's the power of the blood
That brings us to redemption
We can rise above the fall
And the reason for it all

Repeat chorus

Bridge:
All the people beneath the steeple
Are just reaching
For the truth that can save a helpless soul
We wrestle with the mystery in the teaching
But the news is all good
I think that we should
Remember one thing.

[playanotherchord]

you know, i'm always told that if a church is divided over music and both sides are complaining, you're doing the right thing. unless you really just suck. but really, its almost impossible to please everyone. which is why you should only focus on pleasing the Lord.

[guitarzan13]

Teleman53....we do that song in my band! Only, I use a talkbox on the hook riffs.... The kids at church LOVE it!

I'm very lucky at our church....Right now, I'm working on a song for Sunday morning...Kutless "Strong Tower" Of course we mix in Hillsong style stuff and new versions of hymns .... And NO....you can't please everyone. Our Pastor knows it. That's why he has been our Pastor for 39 years!!! Yea, 39 years in the same Baptist church....He is always open to change in the name of our Lord.

[ravindave_3600]

Originally Posted by popthree

i feel that much of what many of these threads you have listed are born from is our own introspective struggles, attempting to find where we, individually, fit into worship with our gifts. unfortunately, our humanness tends to come out as traditions and comfort zones are challenged. who is suprised to find regular ole humans with issues in church....or struggling with church...?

+1

Introspection and human-ness, indeed. I'd love to read the conversations going on over at the "OrganAndPianoWorshipOnly" Forum, and see how their perception of "real" worship differs from us here at the "WeAllLoveGuitarWorship" forum....

It might be illuminating for both of us!

[ChurchPlayer]

I think that in this day and age we expect the church to change as rapidly as the world - and if history is any judge that just don't happen. The way I see it you've got 3 types of folks in most churches (and I'm gonna paint with broad strokes and generalizations - but in no way am I saying any of these types are less saved, sanctified or otherwise in or out of God's graces)...

I'll deal with the 3rd kind first, those who just show up and don't care what you put in front of them because they figure whoever is in charge knows better and they'll just be happy to sit there until Jesus either comes or call them home. We can ignore them.

The first group are what I'll call the "Traditionalists". They're the ones who will tell you, "If it was good enough for my Daddy then it's good enough for me." They carry a desire to preserve the "traditions of the church", at least as they see them, and also carry an inherent fear of anything "new". They question and "test" everything to make sure it's "of God", and until they are absolutely sure of it one way or another it's not about to "come into my church". These are the folks that drive us guitar pickers nuts more than the others because they're the ones most likely to divide absolutely everything, animate or inanimate, into 2 distinct groups - Sacred and Secular. Everything is either in one or the other - nothing can be in both, and nothing can be somewhere outside the two. More often than not this defining process goes like this, "If I can't prove it's 'Sacred' then it's got to be 'Secular'." So, even notes on a page have an instinctual spiritual value - though these may change depending on whether they are being produced by organ pipes or amplified by a Marshall. They will throw the baby out with the bath water just to be sure that they don't stray from the "perfect will of God", often leaving a unministered to people in their wake.

There's the "New Wine" folks. These are the people who believe that the church is not a stagnant being, and it's meant to live in the culture it's in - which requires that a bit of that culture lives in the church. They embrace new music, new art forms, and most anything that will allow them to "maybe reach just one more person" with the Gospel. They will preach the Word by any means necessary, or available. They embrace new technology and new ideas - sometimes to their own detriment (and their communities), following untested doctrine and radical ideas often because "it feels right". They are more likely to split from their current church community over small areas of doctrine or when ministry boundaries are violated - or when certain aspects of the service (like the music) don't suit them. They do a lot of good, but they also do a lot of damage, leaving a lot theologically confused, partial converts in their wake.

Now in practice most folks aren't squarely in one of these categories but actually exhibit characteristics that have them leaning more in one camp than the others - sort of like political leanings. And like politics it is the folks on the far extremes that seem to voice the loudest opinions, or at least have the voices that those in charge listen to first. Imagine a Pastor with both types in his congregation hearing every week from "Mrs. Baker", whose father donated the land who built this church and whose children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren have gone to Sunday School here, every week that "the young man on guitar needs to stop moving around like that because there shouldn't be any dancing in church, Praise God!!", while at the same time he gets almost daily emails from "Ms. Kimmie" who has been working with the youth group for 6 months that we're losing the kids each and every week because they just "can't get into those old hymns and lame choruses from the 90's". Tough job, man - tough job.

I've played and lead worship at an Assembly of God in NJ for the last 9 years and in that time we've nursed our congregation through a "Worship Evolution" that's taken us from a worship Pastor leading a choir accompanied by piano, organ and a couple acoustic guitars (that he wasn't sure he needed) doing a "Yearly theme chorus followed by 2 hymns, a praise chorus, a relfective chorus and an offeratory", to a 6 piece band with 2 guitars (electric and acoustic, sometimes 2 of each), bass, keys, drums and steel guitar playing all sorts of contemporary worship songs, while mixing in updated versions of "the old classics". None of this happened overnight. Change was gradual - sometimes because the congregation wasn't ready for the "new wine", and sometimes because we weren't quite ready to go somewhere with it (most of the time we wanted to, but it was obvious it wasn't working - with us and with them). Thankfully we, as leaders, committed to always prayerfully consider how and when to proceed with anything new, and to take the time to adapt if things weren't right.

I've found that if congregations don't feel like something is being crammed down their throats then they'll adapt a lot quicker than you think. The key is to be tied in with the Pastor and make sure that he's cool with where you're going because he's your first line of defence. Sure there's gonna be a lot of silly BS (like flames on guitars and such) and while we all agree that it really doesn't matter to God, the fact is that when we're ministering we're serving the church to the glory of God, so we need to be sensitive to that. We need to be servants, as Jesus was, putting aside all we know we are free in Him to do so as not to offend a brother or sister, as we were instructed to do in Paul's letters. We'll never be able to make everyone happy, but we'll be offering a pleasing aroma to God.

As for the plethora of messages, that is the subject of this thread, I'm just thankful that we all have a place like this to at least vent about them. It's always easier to share the burden than it is to walk with it alone.

[tom grossheider]

Great thoughts Jake, thanks for sharing all of that.

[broadcaster]

Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy?

Back in the 1800's missionaries would evangelize Native American peoples and then tell them "now you are Christians, so put away your drums, garb etc. and be like us."

This practice has been instituted up to a very few years ago.

Now that that hindering spirit is being broken, Indians are free to worship the Lord Jesus with the trappings of their culture.

Ministries like Jonathan Maracle of brokenwalls.com (no affiliation) are tearing down old religious barriers that have kept many from relationship with the living God.

As quoted from their web site: "To impart a heart for worship that is free from the religious bondage of cultural preference".

Great news indeed.

[bobthecanadian]

Yes, I am weary of it to the point that I don't want to play in church any more. I can stand in the congregation and sing just as well as I can in front of a microphone. If I want to use my other music talents, bring my electric guitar and pedal baord with me, well, that day will just have to wait.

I have played guitar, bass, drums, keyboards and piano in church. I have lead worship using electric and acoustic piano and guitar. I have heard the same kind of complaints regardless of what instrument I have played.

I am having a difficult time at this season of my life remembering what God has done in the midst of our praise and adoration of him. This is something I hope to see change in the near future.

Bob

[wilkat1]

God gladly receives our thanks and praise, often in spite of our best efforts.

Sometimes I'm pretty jaded, but I think complaints about music are not borne of the music or the style but rather the human desire to complain about something. Some folks just aren't happy unless they have something to gripe about, and music gives them something to gripe about.

A congregation divided over music isn't really divided over music - it's really about something else, and music happens to be the line in the sand that they name.

[refin]

It's all crazy........I'm burdened sometimes by much of the Americanized Christianity,and it's adherence to image and decor,which is just veneer.

[David Barnett]

Pizza Communion could become a very popular feature.

[refin]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Pizza Communion could become a very popular feature.

Sadly,yes........like offering plates with credit card swipers on them.

[Reno Sepulveda]

I got weary of it and I quit. I've taken breaks before but this time I got my 16 year old friend Jared up to speed on being able to hold down the electric guitar slot on the praise team and I'm not going back, not filling in when somebody goes on vacation, I'm done.

A big part of it is being in a dry place spiritually but I've been ill at ease with the industrial style Employment/Entertainment/Marketing/worship/ministry "my" church is committed to. My wife and I have started taking my mother to a church nearby her home and haven't attended "our" church in weeks and I haven't recieved a phone call or a letter or anything.

So I play at home or sit in with some old friends in their bands and do open mikes with my acoustic. I'm ill at ease playing so people will come in and buy drinks, but at least the bar is up front about what's going on and the patrons are a happy bunch.

[refin]

Originally Posted by Reno Sepulveda

I got weary of it and I quit. I've taken breaks before but this time I got my 16 year old friend Jared up to speed on being able to hold down the electric guitar slot on the praise team and I'm not going back, not filling in when somebody goes on vacation, I'm done.

A big part of it is being in a dry place spiritually but I've been ill at ease with the industrial style Employment/Entertainment/Marketing/worship/ministry "my" church is committed to. My wife and I have started taking my mother to a church nearby her home and haven't attended "our" church in weeks and I haven't recieved a phone call or a letter or anything.

So I play at home or sit in with some old friends in their bands and do open mikes with my acoustic. I'm ill at ease playing so people will come in and buy drinks, but at least the bar is up front about what's going on and the patrons are a happy bunch.

Quite an open honest post,my friend.....spiritual dry places are often a very good place to meet with God!
I really feel that a stripping of the church will start within the next 5 years.No,I'm not a prophet,but I believe that a certain sensitive core group of believers will become disconnected with the current entertainment/comfort driven arenas of faith,and will get new marching orders.This will not come to those who don't have their nose firmly planted in the Word everyday,and don't have elephant ears for God's voice.If we won't peer over the walls of the church,God might knock them down to expose our nakedness---that's when you find what you're made of.
May God fill our dry places with latter rain!

[teletype]

I think Big Daddy Weave said it best. ".... an audience of one." If our heart is set on pleasing God, that's where our focus belongs. However, one cannot turn a blind eye to the concerns of others in a corporate worship setting. What may be "fodder" for one may be a po