Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy?

[Pickalittle]

oops

[refin]

Play from your heart,and know that God put that heart of worship there......do not be intimidated by the status quo.
Same as in a club or bar----does everyone like you there?
Play as if it is only you and your King,and you are conveying your love to Him through your instrument-----everyone else is an observer,and the Lord will pull the true worshippers along with you.If you are led of the Spirit,that's enough.Don't get crazy or go hog wild in the flesh----go with the flow,God loves reality (He created it)!
Why are you playing? To cover the latest top 40 worship tunes on the "charts",or to the Creator of all? Be as bold as David dancing before his King,and don't sweat the "Michals" (II Samuel 6:20),no matter how much money they throw in the bucket.Avoid excessive "we-are-in-the-Spirit-because-we-are-jamming-freely" environments.Be sensible,yet honest--you can't fool God anyway.If you are truly led of Him,then there will be no confusion.....don't worry about the ones who want to build a tabernacle around their comforts or conveniences.
Serve others through what God says is alright....let Him sort 'em out.

[ondisplay]

Sorry to rehash this but I find myself dealing with the same thing.

my wife took a job as church custodian last year and the new music director asked me to play acoustic for the praise band.

It was a startup as the previous director had recently quit and took several members with her.

The idea was to have a contemporary service.(Us) and the regular traditional service later.

My son who was 10 at the time and had about 6 months of drum lessons was our only hope for a drummer and bless his heart stepped right up to the plate.

When we've stuck to the contemporary format we get good participation from the congregation but when he sticks the old songs back in it seems to turn alot of our people off. Including me.

It has been brought to the attention of many that the traditional service is like a funeral and everyone just sits there.

His idea now is to combine the choir with the praise band and try to ride the fence for both services. I for one am seriously against this move.

To me, praise music is to bridge the gap from daily life to open our hearts to recieve the message.

This can be measured by how many times the pastor has to keep asking for everyone to pay attention.

Honestly, in my church the old hymns just don't seem to motivate people to action anymore.

There seems to be a great disparity in those who are actually active in the church and it ain't the traditional bunch.

This situation has split the church several times over the years and it seems to be coming to that point again. It's heartbreaking.

I'll be the first to admit that I still struggle with pride and patience but on this issue I don't believe I'm wrong.

[hotraman]

As long as people are not open to new musical ideas, trouble may arise.
Personally I love the hymns.
I have made it my mission to rearrange them with modern chords and rythmns.
Most of the comments have been favorable.
Even the sacred Christmas carols no exception.
I'll throw in delays and choruses with my POD X3L, just to make them fresh.
Christmas Eve I'll play mandolin, bring in a dobro and accordian, and go back to "O Brother where art thou?" style.
Don't give up, keep playing for Jesus!

[GoldieLocks]

My wife & I visit lots of Churches. My main concern with NEW music is that alot of people don't seem to be singing along. As cool & trendy as it is...and fun for the teenagers to play I'm not sure if most Church bands are pulling it off.
I know that I'm very guilty of trying to create GREAT music at the expense of people worshipping God.

I hate to say it...but the Churches with the Worst bands seem to have the best congregational responses. The main culpret seems to be the singers. Diva's don't lead worship very well. I see better results from average Joe's.

THis is just something that's on my mind lately. I still try to play lot of interesting guitar parts in Church...But its always around the vocal parts. "I want to hear people sing more than anything". I love them old hymns too.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

My wife & I visit lots of Churches. My main concern with NEW music is that alot of people don't seem to be singing along. As cool & trendy as it is...and fun for the teenagers to play I'm not sure if most Church bands are pulling it off.
I know that I'm very guilty of trying to create GREAT music at the expense of people worshipping God.

I hate to say it...but the Churches with the Worst bands seem to have the best congregational responses. The main culpret seems to be the singers. Diva's don't lead worship very well. I see better results from average Joe's.

THis is just something that's on my mind lately. I still try to play lot of interesting guitar parts in Church...But its always around the vocal parts. "I want to hear people sing more than anything". I love them old hymns too.

The congregation has been a big problem (IMHO) since we've gone to the more contemporary music. There seems to be a big difference between, for instance, Hillsong and Hillsong United. Some of the more "Sr" writers, including folks like Paul Baloche, Darlene Z, and even Lincoln Brewster, seem to write songs that are easier for folks to learn (again, just from the bit I've been around). I've had the pleasure of attending Bayside (Brewster's home church) for about 1.5 years in the past and found lots of older folks very involved in the music. Ray Johnston (the Sr Pastor) made a very definate decission in the direction the music would go, and that was basically young. The older folks bought in right away. I'm in a much smaller church than that now, about 450 folks. The music we do is a mix of new contemporary and some in house contemporary. Again, the pastor made a decision to go "fresh" and the folks have jumped in with both feet. When we first started attending, it was REAL hard to sing along. They did the covers enough different that I didn't recognize some of them (mostly because there was no electric guitar involved). Now that I'm playing guitar, things may move back toward a more "accurate" cover, but i have an awful lot to learn before that happens.

As for me, I don't much care what folks think. The band is there to worship, as am I. As long as my part doesn't go over the top (same with the band), everything will be fine.

Also, we have a female lead voice. She is WONDERFUL. Sings in keys that most people have no problem with. That does mean we don't do alot of songs in the key written, but I enjoy her voice a LOT.


just my thoughts and they're worth exactly what you pay for 'em.

steve

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

My wife & I visit lots of Churches. My main concern with NEW music is that alot of people don't seem to be singing along. As cool & trendy as it is...and fun for the teenagers to play I'm not sure if most Church bands are pulling it off.
I know that I'm very guilty of trying to create GREAT music at the expense of people worshipping God.

I hate to say it...but the Churches with the Worst bands seem to have the best congregational responses. The main culpret seems to be the singers. Diva's don't lead worship very well. I see better results from average Joe's.

THis is just something that's on my mind lately. I still try to play lot of interesting guitar parts in Church...But its always around the vocal parts. "I want to hear people sing more than anything". I love them old hymns too.

If the singers aren't very good, then maybe the congregation is trying to drown them out?

[refin]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I know that I'm very guilty of trying to create GREAT music at the expense of people worshipping God.

I hate to say it...but the Churches with the Worst bands seem to have the best congregational responses. The main culpret seems to be the singers. Diva's don't lead worship very well. I see better results from average Joe's.

THis is just something that's on my mind lately. I still try to play lot of interesting guitar parts in Church...But its always around the vocal parts. "I want to hear people sing more than anything". I love them old hymns too.

I've been there too.
The "trendy" thing to do is follow what's "hot" as far as style,usually at the risk of people being unable to worship.
Worship music is big business now,with lot's of people on the "charts".........and just like a nightclub,if you don't keep up with what's new and current,you will lose your regulars to another establishment that does.It's gotten very performance oriented.
It's a sad state of affairs; I don't even get in the middle of it anymore.I'd rather have a piano and hymns.

[bek]

I know what you mean about songs and arrangements being hard for congregations to sing. I think we've seen a rise of music leaders in churches who are educated musicians but not necessarily anointed or have become distracted. Like playing too many notes becomes a temptation when you get more technically proficient, making music "more interesting" is all too easy for someone who is a music major. The congregation just wants to worship, not figure out the harmony part because it's in a weird key for the soprano leader or try to remember how the key or tempo change goes. I blame pianos. Anyway, it gives me an excuse to stay musically ignorant -- I mean, close to the music. Those little notes on the paper don't distract me! (What do I know?)

[refin]

Actually,the last thing a worship team needs is a hot guitarist that solos.

[apostolicblues]

i play in an Apostolic church we may go of on one and I end up doing a 10 minute solo icoprating everything from Clapton to Dan Huff with sprinklings of walter trout thrown in................

I give praise to God for my talent.. I got compared to BB King and Stevie Ray Vaugn I was amazed....

[apostolicblues]

i play in an Apostolic church we may go of on one and I end up doing a 10 minute solo incoreprating everything from Clapton to Dan Huff with sprinklings of walter trout thrown in................

I give praise to God for my talent.. I got compared to BB King and Stevie Ray Vaugn I was amazed....

[wrw_tele]

Wow...all this talk of controversy and such makes me realize how blessed I am.

15-20 years ago I played in cookie-cutter CCM bands. We did the local church bit and then some, mostly covers. It was fun, but boy you sure learn a lot about different beliefs about guitars and such in church.

After a long layoff from playing in church, I started again about a year ago in a United Methodist church. We have 3 services - traditional with organ & hymns (primarily for those folks that grew up in UMC many many years ago), a contemporary service with a 4-piece band (which I'm lucky to play in), and a sort of "mix" service, traditional-ish music with a full choir and sometimes the whole band. We also have an orchestra that plays about once a month in the "mix" service.

Our music director is one of the most gifted pianists I've ever known. He plays in two bands in addition to the director job. We've played many, many "non-sacred" songs as well as taking traditional songs and completely changing the musical style. It's extremely challenging and yet loads of fun.

I'm reminded of a wise gent that I had the privilege of knowing many years ago. The said there isn't really "secular" and "sacred" music - only GOOD and BAD. I think that can be extended to all types and flavors of "Christian" music today.

Let's just play well and enhance the worship experience for those within earshot. Isn't that what music in church is for, anyway?

wrw_tele

[hal]

For the most part we I am lucky enough to play whatever I want in the band that I run(www.thestirring.net). It's a mixed blessing. We run about 200/week in a church of 6000 plus. We are on Sunday evening and for the most part, the church as a whole is not paying attention to us.

[ravindave_3600]

Has anyone noticed we've been running this thread for about a year now? My answer to "Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy?" is, "We may be tired, but not too tired to keep talking about it!"

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

My wife & I visit lots of Churches. My main concern with NEW music is that alot of people don't seem to be singing along.... I know that I'm very guilty of trying to create GREAT music at the expense of people worshipping God.... I hate to say it, but the Churches with the Worst bands seem to have the best congregational responses.... I see better results from average Joe's.

THis is just something that's on my mind lately. I still try to play lot of interesting guitar parts in Church...But its always around the vocal parts. "I want to hear people sing more than anything". I love them old hymns too.

Bro. Goldy, my heart breaks for the same reason. If what we do DOESN'T lead others to participate in worship, then all we're doing is making music. I know three or four churches with great bands where the congregation sits and watches, and two churches with NO bands (they actually play background CDs!) where everyone sings along. I think I like the little, participatory churches better, and I suspect God does, too.

[LesStrat]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe that our goal should be to lead others into corporate worship. If the congregation is not participating, what have we accomplished? I also am not fond of high volume services. I believe that some of the power of worship comes when you feel part of the process, that is, when you can hear the people around you singing and worshiping.

A complaint I've had for several years is that our worship leaders like to learn 3-4 songs every month. I've played in services in which the congregation only sang along to one song, mainly because it was the only one they knew.

There are times that I would prefer for the band AND the singers to back off and let the congregation lead. Occasionally we "sort of" do this, but the singers stay in their mics.

There have been times when I was worship leader that I quit playing AND singing, and just let the congregation worship.

Addendum: You have to play to your audience. If the majority of the congregation are senior citizens, then your heavy metal riffs and leads will probably not minister to them. If your congregation is teenagers and young adults, then your Buck Owens-style guitar work will probably not be appreciated.

.02

[blacklinefish]

Originally Posted by ravindave_3600

Has anyone noticed we've been running this thread for about a year now? My answer to "Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy?" is, "We may be tired, but not too tired to keep talking about it!"

Well, I only came in here to post my 667th post. You know, because it felt like the right thing to do.

I had no idea that this thread was still going! Kind of fun to check back up on, though.

--gh

[Doug Ferguson]

As a pastor I've played w/ praise bands in churches (wearing and alb & stole, even!) on both electric and acoustic guitars. Some of the congregation joined in the singing, others looked at the ground, or grimmaced, or in short did not participate in that aspect worship since ther "sensibilites" (e.g., tastes) were offended. I heard all about it at worship meetings, Pastor/Parish Committee meetings, before worship, after worship. Then again, there were many who defended non-tradional styles simply because that was a personal preference. Somehow the love and adoration of God in Christ got lost and all that remained was individual tastes in music styles.

[refin]

Originally Posted by Doug Ferguson

.......Somehow the love and adoration of God in Christ got lost and all that remained was individual tastes in music styles.

It IS a shame.....really adds to the Social Club mentality.

[Trimmed&Burnin]

Originally Posted by Doug Ferguson

As a pastor I've played w/ praise bands in churches (wearing and alb & stole, even!) on both electric and acoustic guitars. Some of the congregation joined in the singing, others looked at the ground, or grimmaced, or in short did not participate in that aspect worship since ther "sensibilites" (e.g., tastes) were offended. I heard all about it at worship meetings, Pastor/Parish Committee meetings, before worship, after worship. Then again, there were many who defended non-tradional styles simply because that was a personal preference. Somehow the love and adoration of God in Christ got lost and all that remained was individual tastes in music styles.

I am going to one of those meetings this afternoon,,,,,, Feelin a little weary.

[justapasinthru]

relevant?....

It' looks like most here really have their hearts mostly in the right place...after all we wouldn't be here if we were'nt actually kinda "gifted" as a minstrel...I will assume that most who repsond in this thread are born again...and are listening to the same beat....it's called the heart of God..I hope so

Finding purpose that will relate what's in your heart and hands to a sound that can relate to more than yourself...."as in when 1 or two are gathered"..is a little harder to define when we are still human with "skin on" ...

SOmetimes what's in your heart might not be for anyone but you....or the wildlife..as you practice whilst sitting in the forest on a stump....( some say it's better to preactice in the forest b4 you attempt to march around Jericho...)

I remember when i was 17 year old ..playing a trumpet in the worship band of a LARGE church....(guitars would get lost in the mix) in order to relate....It helped me learn to solo....I made it work...Me an an organ worked together....I'd sing a while and riff a while...wish i still could...no wind anymore...

The heart of the minstrel is so close to the heart of the prophet...if you're really truly GOD-inspired ..you can't give up on finding expression for the "song of the soul set free"...just maybe look for alternative opportunities....I have a hunch that the average joe in the pew that feels he has a heart to teach, or pastor, or lead worship..may be just as frustated as you some times...

unfortunatley not every fellowship offers opportunities for minstrels, or treachers, or even ELders to learn how to grow...It may NOT get better any time soon....It's a disease that may not be cured b4 we all leave here...

Just don't loose heart...because if you have the heart of GOD...I believe that your expression is major part of the solution to really bring a breakthru wherever you choose to fellowship...and if it gets to the point where you need to "play or bust"..find a few close muscian budds...and let'er fly....but if you're not gifted....and just like to play loud...that's ok too....just be a little considerable to others if you do it in public...

there is a group of two or more of every flavor you can relate to....be it on a dulcimer...or PRS thru a half stack....and we all know that Our Leader and Elder BROTHER chose to attend a wedding and made water into wine......
Providing music for any of life's watershed events is a great opportunity to express ones'self providing you are asked and given permission by the wedding planner... again..be relavant to the occasion.... and if you really want to spread good news...take a band to your local prison...and spread some good news....or have you tried the street corner?....been there done that ..with an acoustic..play a while preach a while....i was younger then....

Actually i have played much in years past in worship bands...and was a leader for two years...Strat>midiverb>mesa-boogie....But mostly I've "played out"...in places where my grandkids were welcome...and HE would be welcome.....But as I've gotten too old to be asked to "jump arround onstage"....

I've found a lot of joy playing comfort to those who can't get to a church of any kind.....being in the moment...

"But stay in TUNE...& SPIRITUALY stay in tune.(and practice relevantcy cuz it won't get you so frustrated)..cuz we may be need to lead a march on.......(insert name of town here)"

The older I get....It's harder some days than others for so many reasons....to be relevant..especially when i can now afford Not to be if I want to but...my heart is there....but I'm still a Pilgrim and a stranger....pickin' my way along with nothin in this world to loose except my lady....

"justapasinthru"....

(I wonder if jonah travelled with a dulcimer..or lute).. ?

I found a pic of my first tele....please excuse my humor here....a light heart doeth good you know...