Anyone Else Here Weary Of Church Gear/Style Controversy? - Page 2

BoB/335 · February 2nd, 2007, 02:19 PM

oh!

msteurbaut · February 2nd, 2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teletype

I think Big Daddy Weave said it best. ".... an audience of one." If our heart is set on pleasing God, that's where our focus belongs. However, one cannot turn a blind eye to the concerns of others in a corporate worship setting. What may be "fodder" for one may be a point of real concern and distraction for others.

Let the scriptures be your guide as to what is appropriate for a worship setting and in dealing with the concerns of others.

As a European, I'm rather shocked by all this. How do you know what God wants, or thinks? This kind of God doesn't exist here anymore.

Brian Krashpad · February 2nd, 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msteurbaut

As a European, I'm rather shocked by all this. How do you know what God wants, or thinks? This kind of God doesn't exist here anymore.

He left us a rather lengthy book full of instructions.

These don't come in Dutch, French or German any more?

msteurbaut · February 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Krashpad

He left us a rather lengthy book full of instructions.

These don't come in Dutch, French or German any more?

Of course they do.
But the last time I saw a band playing in a church was 15 years ago. People aren't religious here anymore.

Brian Krashpad · February 2nd, 2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msteurbaut

People aren't religious here anymore.

Well, that's a little different than God not existing over there, is it not?

msteurbaut · February 2nd, 2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Krashpad

Well, that's a little different than God not existing over there, is it not?

You're very optimistic lol.
Do you guys believe the pope when he condems condoms? Just curiosity.

popthree · February 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msteurbaut

People aren't religious here anymore.

i wish we had that problem over here. way to much religion going around

Brian Krashpad · February 2nd, 2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msteurbaut

You're very optimistic lol.
Do you guys believe the pope when he condems condoms? Just curiosity.

I'm a Lutheran, we haven't followed the Pope's pronouncements for several hundred years.

BoB/335 · February 2nd, 2007, 08:47 PM

Don't judge Jesus or the Bible by the pope or any other Christian for that matter. We all fall WAY short.

Brian Krashpad · February 2nd, 2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Don't judge Jesus or the Bible by the pope or any other Christian for that matter. We all fall WAY short.

True dat. And you can put me at the front of that list.

refin · February 3rd, 2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravindave_3600

'Worship is what happens in the congregation, and the music is a tool. We have to be sure the tool doesn't get in the way."

Different societies have different besetting sins (IMO), and ours is the desire to be recognized and served.

Amen,indeed!

I have played in many different types of bands (rock,blues,jazz,country)and although the environment and style changed,no one ever said anything about what was worn or what instruments were used.That's what got me to start this funny thread,having to adjust to all the petty nuances that have nothing to do with a heart to worship.

ravindave_3600 · February 5th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Krashpad

Well, that's a little different than God not existing over there, is it not?

ravindave_3600 · February 5th, 2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reno Sepulveda

Funny thing about humility is, the people who talk about it the most usually seem to practice it the least. Just my observsation.

Talk it - do it! In my case, I talk about it because I need so much reminding!

lowdown1 · July 9th, 2007, 12:52 PM

When we first formed our group, we had two Baptist and a couple from a Pentecostal Faith and a 1 or 2 from non-denominational Churches....all brought up playing different styles of music including religious music. As you can tell already, the first few rehearsals were more confusion than anything! But we as a group, prayed about it and met in the middle. As long as it praised God...what difference did it make, as long as we felt like it was God's will...we would do it. We did traditional, country, rock, contemporary and what ever we felt lead to do.
In the beginning, there were those that thought we were confused...LOL but we tried to do some of it all...trying to please everyone. We would use a run sheet, with a list of the material we would do, but only as a guide line. We had made up our minds that God would have His way, and if he laid it on our hearts to do a certain song, then we did it. You never know what song, would touch someone to lead them to Christ, or strengthen them.
At first, some of the more traditional Churches didn't cotton to this idea, and we felt like we were doing something wrong. It caused a riff internally with the group, but we talked about it, and we had formed the group because we all loved music, and wanted to spread His Word, thru song! We all prayed about it, and all felt we were doing His Will, and agreed, that we wouldn't change a thing. We do songs that are thought provoking, songs that will step on your toes. Like I said we play it all. A Rock styled version of "Peace in The Valley"....Charlie Daniels "Praying to the Wrong God" and whatever song we feel we were lead to do. We weren't invited back to several of the Churches, but then again we have other Churches, booking us to come back as often as we can.
We would go into some Churches, and as soon as our drummer would go to set up, you could hear the complaints start, then turn around and the next Church, the members would line up to help, us unload all our gear. We play churches that once all the band and crew, get in, you wonder where everybody else is going sit, and Churches, that even with all the gear we have, it looked like nothing setting on the huge stage they have.
We start every singing with a prayer, that God will lead us in His will, and always include and invitation...each member of the group, if God leads them to give there testimony...go for it. We use every avenue to lead someone to Christ. Our lead guitarist, uses several pedals, and a wah...I play bass thru an old 68' Kustom bottom, with two Celestion's and a 300 watt Amp, we have a 7000 watt PA with subs and we can rattle the rafters, and have been in services, where if we had ran all 7000 watts thru the subs, couldn't have moved some of them, and on the other hand, been in services, where the Spirit of God was moving in the Church, before we got there, and when we would get started, it would be like the sky rolled back and the blessings would pour from Heaven.
We all like a little pat on the back, every now and then..and at times it just human to take a little credit....but when you find yourself centered on doing His Will...it's all to His Glory! We are just the messengers, we are nothing without Him...we wouldn't even have the talent we use, if not for Him!
It is my belief, that if it's Gods will, it will Happen....if not there is nothing you can do to make it happen.
We as a group, have a long way to go, and we still have problems...Satan, will throw everything he can, in front of you and discourage you in any way possible...but prayer is the KEY to open all the doors. We get complacent, and traveling will take it's toll, and you get tired, and disgusted...and ready to quit......but then in some little church, someone will tell you how much a certain song meant to them, or you give an invitation, and several give their life to God, and God has a way of "Energizing" and all the troubles, blown equipment, the bus breaks down...and everything else seems so small...and it all falls into place and you realize this is where you were meant to be.

Pastor Jeff · July 12th, 2007, 04:18 AM

I juist spent the last 45 minutes reading through this thread. I've got to check in more often!

After watching the 06 Passion DVD (Tomlin, Redman, Crowder, Hall) I had a conversation with my 17 year old son about how music in church has changed since I was his age (1966) We couldn't even dream music in church could be like it is now! I was in a Baptist church then, I'm a pastor in the Assemblies of God now, and the principal worship leader. At 58 I'm a hippie rocker that God saved. I love Jesus and contemporary music, so we rock! I truly wish all of you who've had problems playing electric music in church could come to Oregon, I'd love to have you. You guys talking about humility, God Bless You! You guys faithfully playing through the troubles, God Bless You! you guys who have quit, I'm sorry, God bless you! You guys pointing people towards the Word, God bless you!

I know I'm in a different situation, not having to answer to a non musicial pastor. I've been here longer than anyone else in church, so if people don't like how it is here, they leave, not me! I don't say that mean spirited or egotistical. I can only do what I can do (deep) I don't try to tick people off, but I try to stay true to what I believe in, which includes worshipping the Lord in a manner that reaches our generation today!

I remember the "worship wars" from the 70's, but that's old news to me, sorry to hear it isn't in other places.

Once again, the 06 Passion DVD, well worth owning. My wife & I play it over and over. I wept the first 1/2 dozen times, seeing 18 thousand college students so passionate about the Lord.

I'm glad I got to witness it in my lifetime.

Bless you, Jeff

freddie · July 12th, 2007, 05:22 AM

I grew up in the Church of God of Prophecy/Pentacostal and I always remember electric guitars & basses and drums. I loved it. Now I'm Episcopal/Anglican and have been for many years. When I got married last year I was told I couldn't have 'For All We Know' by The Carpenters played as the wedding march, because they are that uptight about rock music lol... I'm like HELLO lol... Karen was moral moral than many of the popular Christian singers. The organist told me she could play the wedding march, but she thought it might be kind of tacky???? Yeah and that's a pop song too lady. She charged me $250.00 too lol...

I listened to all kinds of music as a child I loved Jimi Hendrix and Janis and I never heard that rock music was evil until I attended the more mainline denominations in the late 70's.

freddie

playanotherchord · July 15th, 2007, 01:13 PM

I got back from the Hillsong Conference '07 a week ago, and something Louie Giglio said stuck with me. I think we all need to read Hebrews 13:15-16, not missing that big fat 'and' in the middle of it.

And Bob, I wasn't being narrowminded when I made that comment on the anti-guitarists. Pianists I know don't like playing in E, but we all play the music anyway.

dolfan19 · July 15th, 2007, 01:20 PM

Gee, our church puts on a haunted house just about every October. They even encouraged me to open the hymn I played on one Sunday with a single note run lead in. Of course, I've been to other houses of worship that are way more conservative. I'm glad we have the choice where to worship.

Dr. T · September 2nd, 2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msteurbaut

...[T]he last time I saw a band playing in a church was 15 years ago. People aren't religious here anymore.

Msteurbaut, I was raised to think there was a difference between "a religion and a relationship." I believe that over the centuries, for many, attending church, and following the "religious" practices that were prescribed, became maybe more of a socio-cultural habit. Unfortunately (as I also heard in church as a kid), "God has no grandchildren." Any person who does not have a direct, personal experience of God through Jesus Christ will probably ultimately find that type of religious practice empty and meaningless. And who could blame them?

At the same time I'd be willing to bet that there are still a great many people in Europe (and elsewhere) who have that personal experience of God through Christ, what many refer to as being "saved" or spiritually "born again". It means coming to an inner faith that Jesus Christ is in fact the Lord and Savior of the world, and "accepting" Him as such, i.e., acknowledging Him as Lord and accepting His sacrifice on the cross as the payment or expiation for ones's sins. There is, as I - and probably many others here - can attest, an experiential element, i.e., one often feels the presence or reality of God in one's life day to day.

If you're interested you might take a tour through the New Testament, or at least the Gospels. God bless!

Pesty · September 4th, 2007, 12:37 AM

I have had the great fortune of playing in a Church for the last 3 years where it is encouraged to go against the norm. Our church has a very young average age, and we like our rock music. We quite often take worship songs, and then procced to add a rock edge to them.

One of my guitars, is a Rainbow Sparkle Rock Candy from Daisy Rock. So naturally the first Sunday I played it, I wore a bright pink Polo shirt and had a decent sized fauxhawk as well. Sure our song leader made fun of me publicly in front of our congregation, but it was a lot of fun, and we had a great response that Sunday.

I also run sound, (my second job is a sound tech for a local production company,) and I typically push the low end and general volume a little louder than the other sound techs, and even then I've had the pastor come to me during run-through and tell me to "crank it up to 11!"

That said, as long as the focus is not lost, then all music is pleasing to God's ears.

We've been doing an unplugged outdoor service for the last two months, and this Sunday, we're doing the fall kick off, it'll be great to have a full band together again on a Sunday morning. Looking forwards to rocking out for a good cause again.

krashjones · September 4th, 2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonebender

I don't come to play for Pastor ______ to make him happy, no I come to play for the Lord and bring people into worship.

Well, you know the pastor is the steward of that church. He has authority, and with authority comes vision and revelation. When God wants to do something with that church, or with you in that church, He does so by going through the pastor of that church. The blessing and authority of the church is going to flow through the pastor and the leadership of the church. We really should read the Bible a lot more if we want to understand the concept of spiritual authority.

you cannot be in rebellion against the will of your pastor and also at the same time be serving the Lord. If you really believe your pastor does not have any idea what pleases God and is an unjust authority over your personal worship style then you should maybe consider changing churches. You have to be willing to submit to authority before you will ever have any authority of your own. What that means is submitting to the vision of your pastor whether you agree with it from a style or personality perspective or not.

Likewise if you want to be successful as a professional musician you have to be willing to submit to the authority of the band leader. If you want to succeed at work you are going to have to be willing to submit to the authority of your superiors. It is mostly pride that causes us to think we are serving God by deviating from the vision of the pastor of the church during worship. There is no example in the Bible of any person being blessed by failing to submit to the authority of a leader that was installed by God. Even David refused to harm a hair on Saul's head while Saul was still alive and in power. You have to submit if you want to find blessing.

I guess what I'm fed up with more than anything is arrogant musicians who think they know more about what God is doing in their church than does the pastor of that church. Well I'm not so much fed up with it, but disappointed and concerned. If you're there to serve, then serve. That means put your will and tastes aside and submit to your authority. If you're there to express yourself or have some emotive worship experience, or some other selfish reason, then you need to get off the platform IMHO. It took me a decade and a half to learn this.

popthree · September 4th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krashjones

Well, you know the pastor is the steward of that church. He has authority, and with authority comes vision and reve

February 2nd, 2007, 02:19 PM	#41 (permalink)
BoB/335 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Long Island Posts: 476	oh! __________________ BoB/335

February 2nd, 2007, 08:47 PM	#49 (permalink)
BoB/335 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Long Island Posts: 476	Don't judge Jesus or the Bible by the pope or any other Christian for that matter. We all fall WAY short. __________________ BoB/335

July 9th, 2007, 12:52 PM	#54 (permalink)
lowdown1 NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Alabama Age: 57 Posts: 9	When we first formed our group, we had two Baptist and a couple from a Pentecostal Faith and a 1 or 2 from non-denominational Churches....all brought up playing different styles of music including religious music. As you can tell already, the first few rehearsals were more confusion than anything! But we as a group, prayed about it and met in the middle. As long as it praised God...what difference did it make, as long as we felt like it was God's will...we would do it. We did traditional, country, rock, contemporary and what ever we felt lead to do. In the beginning, there were those that thought we were confused...LOL but we tried to do some of it all...trying to please everyone. We would use a run sheet, with a list of the material we would do, but only as a guide line. We had made up our minds that God would have His way, and if he laid it on our hearts to do a certain song, then we did it. You never know what song, would touch someone to lead them to Christ, or strengthen them. At first, some of the more traditional Churches didn't cotton to this idea, and we felt like we were doing something wrong. It caused a riff internally with the group, but we talked about it, and we had formed the group because we all loved music, and wanted to spread His Word, thru song! We all prayed about it, and all felt we were doing His Will, and agreed, that we wouldn't change a thing. We do songs that are thought provoking, songs that will step on your toes. Like I said we play it all. A Rock styled version of "Peace in The Valley"....Charlie Daniels "Praying to the Wrong God" and whatever song we feel we were lead to do. We weren't invited back to several of the Churches, but then again we have other Churches, booking us to come back as often as we can. We would go into some Churches, and as soon as our drummer would go to set up, you could hear the complaints start, then turn around and the next Church, the members would line up to help, us unload all our gear. We play churches that once all the band and crew, get in, you wonder where everybody else is going sit, and Churches, that even with all the gear we have, it looked like nothing setting on the huge stage they have. We start every singing with a prayer, that God will lead us in His will, and always include and invitation...each member of the group, if God leads them to give there testimony...go for it. We use every avenue to lead someone to Christ. Our lead guitarist, uses several pedals, and a wah...I play bass thru an old 68' Kustom bottom, with two Celestion's and a 300 watt Amp, we have a 7000 watt PA with subs and we can rattle the rafters, and have been in services, where if we had ran all 7000 watts thru the subs, couldn't have moved some of them, and on the other hand, been in services, where the Spirit of God was moving in the Church, before we got there, and when we would get started, it would be like the sky rolled back and the blessings would pour from Heaven. We all like a little pat on the back, every now and then..and at times it just human to take a little credit....but when you find yourself centered on doing His Will...it's all to His Glory! We are just the messengers, we are nothing without Him...we wouldn't even have the talent we use, if not for Him! It is my belief, that if it's Gods will, it will Happen....if not there is nothing you can do to make it happen. We as a group, have a long way to go, and we still have problems...Satan, will throw everything he can, in front of you and discourage you in any way possible...but prayer is the KEY to open all the doors. We get complacent, and traveling will take it's toll, and you get tired, and disgusted...and ready to quit......but then in some little church, someone will tell you how much a certain song meant to them, or you give an invitation, and several give their life to God, and God has a way of "Energizing" and all the troubles, blown equipment, the bus breaks down...and everything else seems so small...and it all falls into place and you realize this is where you were meant to be.

July 12th, 2007, 04:18 AM	#55 (permalink)
Pastor Jeff TDPRI Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sherwood Oregon Age: 59 Posts: 27	I juist spent the last 45 minutes reading through this thread. I've got to check in more often! After watching the 06 Passion DVD (Tomlin, Redman, Crowder, Hall) I had a conversation with my 17 year old son about how music in church has changed since I was his age (1966) We couldn't even dream music in church could be like it is now! I was in a Baptist church then, I'm a pastor in the Assemblies of God now, and the principal worship leader. At 58 I'm a hippie rocker that God saved. I love Jesus and contemporary music, so we rock! I truly wish all of you who've had problems playing electric music in church could come to Oregon, I'd love to have you. You guys talking about humility, God Bless You! You guys faithfully playing through the troubles, God Bless You! you guys who have quit, I'm sorry, God bless you! You guys pointing people towards the Word, God bless you! I know I'm in a different situation, not having to answer to a non musicial pastor. I've been here longer than anyone else in church, so if people don't like how it is here, they leave, not me! I don't say that mean spirited or egotistical. I can only do what I can do (deep) I don't try to tick people off, but I try to stay true to what I believe in, which includes worshipping the Lord in a manner that reaches our generation today! I remember the "worship wars" from the 70's, but that's old news to me, sorry to hear it isn't in other places. Once again, the 06 Passion DVD, well worth owning. My wife & I play it over and over. I wept the first 1/2 dozen times, seeing 18 thousand college students so passionate about the Lord. I'm glad I got to witness it in my lifetime. Bless you, Jeff

July 12th, 2007, 05:22 AM	#56 (permalink)
freddie Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portsmouth, U.K. Age: 44 Posts: 186	I grew up in the Church of God of Prophecy/Pentacostal and I always remember electric guitars & basses and drums. I loved it. Now I'm Episcopal/Anglican and have been for many years. When I got married last year I was told I couldn't have 'For All We Know' by The Carpenters played as the wedding march, because they are that uptight about rock music lol... I'm like HELLO lol... Karen was moral moral than many of the popular Christian singers. The organist told me she could play the wedding march, but she thought it might be kind of tacky???? Yeah and that's a pop song too lady. She charged me $250.00 too lol... I listened to all kinds of music as a child I loved Jimi Hendrix and Janis and I never heard that rock music was evil until I attended the more mainline denominations in the late 70's. freddie

July 15th, 2007, 01:13 PM	#57 (permalink)
playanotherchord Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 22 Posts: 246 2 Photos	I got back from the Hillsong Conference '07 a week ago, and something Louie Giglio said stuck with me. I think we all need to read Hebrews 13:15-16, not missing that big fat 'and' in the middle of it. And Bob, I wasn't being narrowminded when I made that comment on the anti-guitarists. Pianists I know don't like playing in E, but we all play the music anyway.

July 15th, 2007, 01:20 PM	#58 (permalink)
dolfan19 Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gillette, NJ Age: 42 Posts: 271	Gee, our church puts on a haunted house just about every October. They even encouraged me to open the hymn I played on one Sunday with a single note run lead in. Of course, I've been to other houses of worship that are way more conservative. I'm glad we have the choice where to worship.

September 4th, 2007, 12:37 AM	#60 (permalink)
Pesty Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 317	I have had the great fortune of playing in a Church for the last 3 years where it is encouraged to go against the norm. Our church has a very young average age, and we like our rock music. We quite often take worship songs, and then procced to add a rock edge to them. One of my guitars, is a Rainbow Sparkle Rock Candy from Daisy Rock. So naturally the first Sunday I played it, I wore a bright pink Polo shirt and had a decent sized fauxhawk as well. Sure our song leader made fun of me publicly in front of our congregation, but it was a lot of fun, and we had a great response that Sunday. I also run sound, (my second job is a sound tech for a local production company,) and I typically push the low end and general volume a little louder than the other sound techs, and even then I've had the pastor come to me during run-through and tell me to "crank it up to 11!" That said, as long as the focus is not lost, then all music is pleasing to God's ears. We've been doing an unplugged outdoor service for the last two months, and this Sunday, we're doing the fall kick off, it'll be great to have a full band together again on a Sunday morning. Looking forwards to rocking out for a good cause again.