Those evil guitar solos

[colonelrobert]

Originally Posted by teleman53

So, i was talkin to my manager the other day about music and what kind of music she liked anyway she never said guitar solos were evil, just that they took away from the words and didn't really worship God. I told her the Bible says to play skillfully with stringed instruments. So I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this before? What did you do, what do you say to it?

When I was in the church band during the altar call a lead version of Amazing Grace or other worship song with the rest of the band playing low could really set a mood. But I believe it all centers around the groove of the Pastor, and music direction. The Pastor first, because he is responsible for the spititual well being of the church as a whole.
I remember in Memphis when DeGarmo And Key was playing on an old flatbed trailer in the parking lot of the Pop Tunes record store. A lot of folks were going HUH, but the kids were digging it. And Acts The 2nd Chapter blazed a new trail. Opps, I'm showing my grey hairs!

Some of my gospel lyrics still make folks go HUH, but that's ok too.

For myself, I never got into using bible verses to prove a point, pro or con. It makes a hammer out of a beautiful gift from God. "I told her the Bible says to play skillfully with stringed instruments."
Besides, don't you think the word skillfully can mean different things to different folks?

Colonel Robert

[refin]

Originally Posted by Buddaman

I witnessed that phenomenon with many other singers and performers...as well as MANY (almost all) pastors...it's not just music...maybe being around it for so many years made me cynical...I definitely believe that everyone has the right to worship in whatever way they wish and whatever brings them closer to their version of God has validity I guess...

the reason I quit is that I was UNCOMFORTABLE with people coming to me (AND other members of the worship team and visiting musicians and pastors) and commenting on the playing or singing...I am a very self-deprecating and quiet individual by nature...anyway...I meant no offense to anyone...I was just relating my experiences and my search for a real and honest relationship with God...i guess this just proves that guitars are more fun to talk about than politics and religion...
Peace

I can relate....especially when you are playing to an "experience/feely" oriented congregation.I've share before how people in such churches can get worked up into a frenzy over music.

[collinsman]

Originally Posted by popthree

what makes you think it was YOU ?

Ditto & about that performance thing..hmm - to me you're there to lead people into worship, not to entertain. It's a fine line, but the spirit of humility has to be prevalent, in others words - " God you are everything " and we're here to lift you up - not saying it in word, but it has to be in the heart of the worship leaders, or it's all wood, hay, and stubble.

[Preacher]

Wow, so many opinions, and that is what they are. There is no hard and fast rule for a worship setting other than this;

ALL the people who are on stage, running the lights and in the sound booth must all be in one mind and accord of what they are there for. To LEAD people into worship.

I Pastor a small AG church with contemporary music and our entire purpose for being there is to serve the people. Do we want to do our best? Absolutely, I have challenged our church to do all things with excellance. Because that is what I believe what GOD wants us to do.
But when it becomes about us, we have lost focus of what we are there for.

I know many a musician who feels left out in the worship service, and what I usually find is that they are in the wrong church. We are creatures of habit and we like to be comfortable, but sometimes we need to be where GOD wants us to be used for his glory, not for our glory. I have worked with many a music minister who was not in it for what he could do for GOD, but what GOD could do for him. Always wanting the spotlight, to make himself look good. In those cases, I feel like Monty Python when they find the cute little bunny that turns into a raving monster and I scream;
"Run away, Run away..."

[popthree]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Wow, so many opinions, and that is what they are. There is no hard and fast rule for a worship setting other than this;

ALL the people who are on stage, running the lights and in the sound booth must all be in one mind and accord of what they are there for. To LEAD people into worship.

the statement is idealist and fantasy ...... replace the word MUST with word SHOULD and you'll have my agreement.

[proffett]

Originally Posted by popthree

the statement is idealist and fantasy ...... replace the word MUST with word SHOULD and you'll have my agreement.

I have to disagree here... not trying to start another debate but...
How many times in the bible are we told we SHOULD, rather than MUST or WILL? Not too many... It's not book of options. All too often we replace the MUST's and WILL's in the bible with SHOULD's for convenience's sake or to make it easier for us to stomach.
Answering God's call, any call, not just to lead worship, isn't supposed to be a SHOULD thing.
Personally, I think Preacher's statement is right on the mark.


D

[popthree]

Originally Posted by proffett

I have to disagree here... not trying to start another debate but...
How many times in the bible are we told we SHOULD, rather than MUST or WILL? Not too many... It's not book of options. All too often we replace the MUST's and WILL's in the bible with SHOULD's for convenience's sake or to make it easier for us to stomach.
Answering God's call, any call, not just to lead worship, isn't supposed to be a SHOULD thing.
Personally, I think Preacher's statement is right on the mark.


D

.... "ALL the people who are on stage, running the lights and in the sound booth must all be in one mind and accord of what they are there for. To LEAD people into worship. "

so you think the above is the reality in the church today ? I do not believe it is so. half the time they are hired hands who are there for only 1 reason, money

[Pickalittle]

I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself as a new poster and as a new owner of my first Tele, a 60th anniversary USA Tele (Sunburst).
I am a secular "has been" '60's rocker who God resurrected as a lead guitarist in a large church. I began playing and recording in the early '60's when the Stones were called the Rolling Stones and the Beatles had just come out. Roy Orbison, the Monkees, the Mamas and the Papas were on the top of the charts. (I even play my 1960 Sunburst Fender Jazzmaster in worhship as I have played nothing that comes close to the tone through my '70's 112-65w Musicman).
Anyway, no one likes a fretboard-smoking, mind-boggling lead riff more than I do by a skilled fretmeister, but I have discovered that my best gift to the Lord during worship is to hold back and to add meaningful, somewhat simple fills that bring a tear to Jesus' eyes and not to the old lady in the front pew. We have some amazingly talented musicians in our band(s). I dearly love it when the lead guitarist does a tasteful fill and then the violinist plays a solo off the acoustic guitars. We appreciate bridging rock and classical. (Can anyone say Queen Redeemed?!)
I guess what I'm saying is that worship is something we do in every area of our lives, through sacrificing our desires for His for the sake of His kingdom. When it comes to musical worship in Church, I think we are at our best when we leave those ripping riffs in the case and contribute a balanced addition to the songs with humility so that we add and never take away from what God is doing in the hearts of the saints there. I love the old hymns and I love hard rock. I just think God gives us wisdome to know when to worship Him with which.... Then again I could be all wet, because Handel played to the masses in churches from time to time and I think he rocked for his era!

In His Humble Service,
Scott

Ex-lead, the Henchmen, L.A.
Recording session player
Singer/songwriter
1960 Fender Jazzmaster
2006 Fender 60th Anniversary USA Tele
Gibson SJ-200 Ray Whitley personal custom (my grandfather)
Gibson Songwriter Deluxe

[Preacher]

popthree Quote:
Originally Posted by proffett
I have to disagree here... not trying to start another debate but...
How many times in the bible are we told we SHOULD, rather than MUST or WILL? Not too many... It's not book of options. All too often we replace the MUST's and WILL's in the bible with SHOULD's for convenience's sake or to make it easier for us to stomach.
Answering God's call, any call, not just to lead worship, isn't supposed to be a SHOULD thing.
Personally, I think Preacher's statement is right on the mark.


D

.... "ALL the people who are on stage, running the lights and in the sound booth must all be in one mind and accord of what they are there for. To LEAD people into worship. "

so you think the above is the reality in the church today ? I do not believe it is so. half the time they are hired hands who are there for only 1 reason, money





There in lies the problem, yes Popthree you are right, and proffet you are correct to. We need to be all in one mind and one accord to prepare the setting for worship.
I tell my people, it is like setting up for a house party. You make sure that everything is done and ready for the party. You make sure the countertops are clean, the glasses don't have water spots, that the bathroom is clean, the floors vacumned, that the food is ready, the lights are all on and the front porch ready to receive guest.
Too many times we are running around at the last minute with no clue what our jobs are, we aren't all tuned the same, volume levels are off, lights are to bright or the projector isn't turned on, etc etc.
All in one mind to "prepare the people for an encounter with GOD"
All in one accord "to bring glory and honor to GOD".
Yes, it is not easy but that is what we are striving for.

[popthree]

my point was simply that the word MUST implies an absolute, and that leaves no wiggle room for what really is....

if something MUST be a certain way, then IT IS, or it does not exist at all....

replace MUST with should... as in what we should be striving for.... MUST we not sin ? oooh, trouble.... it would be more true to say we MUST sin, but we should not....and we strive to resist.

[proffett]

Originally Posted by popthree

.... "ALL the people who are on stage, running the lights and in the sound booth must all be in one mind and accord of what they are there for. To LEAD people into worship. "

so you think the above is the reality in the church today ? I do not believe it is so. half the time they are hired hands who are there for only 1 reason, money

I know it's not the reality of the church today. But it is the reality of how it is supposed to be.
I never have, and never will, play in a church for money.

Originally Posted by popthree

....
my point was simply that the word MUST implies an absolute, and that leaves no wiggle room for what really is....

if something MUST be a certain way, then IT IS, or it does not exist at all....

replace MUST with should... as in what we should be striving for.... MUST we not sin ? oooh, trouble.... it would be more true to say we MUST sin, but we should not....and we strive to resist.

I'll let you take that debate before the King when you get there. I''m sure He will be able to clarify to all of us whether we 'MUST have' or 'SHOULD have...' in the meantime, I will keep on worshipping in my way and doing the best I can to keep to His Word. Because thats what the Bible tells me I must do. I know I will fail, but that doesn't stop me from trying.

(I guess my point is that it's not up to us to replace any of the words in the Bible to match our own reality(s), but we MUST strive to make our reality line up with the Word.)

[popthree]

Originally Posted by proffett

(I guess my point is that it's not up to us to replace any of the words in the Bible to match our own reality(s), but we MUST strive to make our reality line up with the Word.)

i guess we better all get busy learning aramaic and hebrew

[proffett]

Originally Posted by popthree

i guess we better all get busy learning aramaic and hebrew

Translating the Word to your own language is one thing, transforming it to fit your own ideals is quite another.
Not meaning to be rude, but I think I'm done with this particular argument. You've got your opinion and I've got mine. I can't force mine on you, and vice-versa, so what's the use of slamming the same point back and forth over and over like a couple of rams butting heads?
Next debate?

[popthree]

thats cool prophett. i i was merely trying to point out that use of the word MUST implies an absolute, and in regards to the subject matter here, the only absolute is the absense of absolutes. more of a logical/semantic point than anything.

when you started down the road of accusing me of altering the Word, well i couldn't resist pointing out that it has evolved a great deal over time...hence the aramaic/hebrew jib. nothing personal dude.

[proffett]

Hey no problem.
And just for the sake of FYI, Proffett is my real name, not some kind of religious handle. (IE: prophet)
In case anyone was wondering.
I do get accused of having delusions of grandeur every now and then. And get this... first name's Daniel.
Big shoes to fill, if I was to try to live up to it.


D

[chriscrob]

where do you expect people to focus their attention during a guitar solo? If the answer isn't God then they dont need to be there. As worship leaders your job is to facilitate the worship of others. To point them to God. If the singer screams "guitar" and the spotlight switches from God to the lead guitarist then you have completely missed the point. A worship team should try to be as 'invisible' as possible. Solo's are generally not invisible.

[BellyBoy]

nevermind---

[rickyraveon]

The songs we play at my church have solos in them. Therefore I play the solos in the songs we play. We have 2 services on Sunday morning. The 9 am service has less volume, & I play sax, & we have an acoustic guitar, mandolin, bass & drums. 11 am, I switch over to guitar, as does the mandolin player (or we swap out for another guitarist) the acoustic player goes to electric-based on songs, same set list for both services. The guitar solos are sax solos for the first service. Second time around, I do them on guitar, like the original artist. No one has EVER said anything about the solos being a distractor, that's the way the song goes.

I've been a "lead" saxophonist for 30 years. Everyone "loves" the sax solos. They're so "Annointed". I believe I have the same annointing as a guitarist, & I play with the same feeling, worshipful attitude & reverence (with distortion, wah & delay, of course). What the congregation "enjoys" may be their personal preference in musical style or background. I've worked most of my life to be at proficient on both instruments, and believe with all of my heart that it doesn't matter to God which one I'm using. I'm praising or worshipping with all of my heart, mind and soul. Every congregation is different. Our 2 services are distinctly different, even with the same songs & sermon. We (here at the forum) can't come to a unified conclusion about whether guitar solos are distracting or appropriate unless we're all of the same heart & mind, in the same situation, at the same time. They work for us, 'cause it's what we do, very modern contemporary worship. I've been playing in church since I was 8 years old-(I'm 45). I've seen a LOT of churches where what I do on Sunday morning at 11 am wouldn't be appropriate. Not everyone likes the style (or intensity/volume) of the music we play at 11 am or on Wednesday night (same feel, shuffle players-I go to Bass). They are welcome to come to the 9 am service, or maybe come to your church. You can't "cater" to everyone's musical taste, & that's what it is, their personal preference. We recently had a complaint about our "countdown video" before service. "How can we praise God after watching that goofy video?" Heck, if you can't praise God after a silly video, how are you gonna praise God after your house burns down or you lose your job or you get deployed to Iraq? MOST of the very infrequent complaints we get are petty and selfish observations, usually by the same people. Our Pastor & Worship Pastor have a unified vision on what they want our P&W to be. It might not be for everyone, but that's ok. It's what we do. You can get on the train, jump off, or get left behind. How many of the Israelites that went into the desert got to go into the land of milk & honey? "Don't like manna, let's build a golden calf", etc.
I just want to to what the Holy Spirit leads me to do. If it's to tear into a solo, I'll do it. If it means putting my guitar down, & kneeling or lying in reverence, waiting on the Lord, I'll do that too. We're part of leading a corporate worship setting, so that's why we have to be really sensitive to the direction from your pastoral staff, the Holy Spirit, and your own personal walk with God.

[Preacher]

As times change, it will become more and more familiar to the church as a whole with new songs to hear a guitar solo. I just got to watch Paul Baloche (I think that is his name) and his lead guitarist do an instructional video about soloing and lead guitar for worship songs.
In a nutshell, the solo adds to the music pallete and layers on top of what everything else has already been laid as a foundation. When the effect is an addition to the overall musical creation that creates beauty, it is good.
When the effect is a bad addition to the musical creation, it is like seeing that very attractive person, walking up to them and then smelling BO!!
Blending = good
blasting = bad...

[Reno Sepulveda]

I am no longer a sunday morning superstar (the old title of this forum) but as usual there are no hard and fast rules for us. I grew up in the Baptist tradition of rock and dancing being evil so I'm naturally hesitant to let 'er rip in church. My current pastor though would routinely signal me from the front pew by playing air guitar to turn it up and blow. Other times he'd request Heaven by Los Lonely Boys out of the blue to kind of get people awake and involved and I was always happy to oblige him. That's what some churches want nowadays. Some churches don't.

Me, I got tired of all the soul searching, critcism and politics involved in ministry so I quit. I do miss the good times though, and long for that perfect church where the sermons are all inspired, the music soulful and righteous and the spirit is so thick you can feel it (him...her?) in your lungs.

One of these days.

[freeradical]

Originally posted by Pickalittle
I have discovered that my best gift to the Lord during worship is to hold back and to add meaningful, somewhat simple fills that bring a tear to Jesus' eyes and not to the old lady in the front pew.

You make Jesus cry?