Those evil guitar solos - Page 3

broadcaster · March 6th, 2007, 05:10 PM

"I plan to fire up something like a 6-wide full Marshall stack in heaven when I get there... or something just as loud and equally able to broadcast my innermost pure love for my Messiah, my Chirst, my Jesus..."

Now that is worship in Spirit and Truth with passion!

GhostofJohnToad · March 6th, 2007, 09:52 PM

I was playing guitar at a church where the music director got kind of weird about some things. She believed that certain musical tones and progressions were evil and should never be played. The whole dissonance thing was very bad. I had never heard that notion until then. She had a big thing about faces too. The other guitar player always made faces when he played and she would scold him all the time.

refin · March 6th, 2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostofJohnToad

I was playing guitar at a church where the music director got kind of weird about some things. She believed that certain musical tones and progressions were evil and should never be played. The whole dissonance thing was very bad. I had never heard that notion until then. She had a big thing about faces too. The other guitar player always made faces when he played and she would scold him all the time.

I played at a church where minor chords were considered demonic------go figure,the ego and power of the mind.They had an ENTIRE cassette teaching series on this.

"There is nothing new under the sun......"

popthree · March 6th, 2007, 10:08 PM

guitar face

teleman53 · March 9th, 2007, 12:33 AM

I love this thread

bigdaddyweed · March 14th, 2007, 08:59 AM

Great topic. One I have thought about more than once.

If (guitar) solos are evil because their are no words, then eveidently, silent prayer must be evil too. I want to think, that when a solo is going on, people who are truly listening to the word through the song, will reflect on what this song means to them, and how the meaning from the song can help them do God's will in their everyday life.
But, as usual, the members of the congregation who want to be critics, pick this time during a solo to find fault with something, and these are the people I pray for most.

pickin' and prayin'.................weedman

popthree · March 14th, 2007, 03:01 PM

guns dont kill, people do

solos dont make evil, people do

BoB/335 · March 14th, 2007, 07:23 PM

" I want to think, that when a solo is going on, people who are truly listening to the word through the song, will reflect on what this song means to them, and how the meaning from the song can help them do God's will in their everyday life."

Do you REALLY think so? I doubt that I would be "reflecting" on the song during a solo.

"I played at a church where minor chords were considered demonic------go figure,the ego and power of the mind.They had an ENTIRE cassette teaching series on this."

Can I get a copy?

refin · March 14th, 2007, 08:15 PM

Come see me live,I can be a maniac within reason.....in church,I would rather not solo.

Jackson Jackson · March 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM

I rarely play solos during worship, and almost never plan out where to place them or what to play if I do, however if I feel the Holy Spirit prompt me to "let go" musically and jus play, you betcha I'm going to!

In the same way that some Sundays I speak more between or during songs, some days we read scripture during worship and sometimes we don't. Sometimes out sets our blazing and upbeat, sometimes more reflective.

Let the Spirit lead and play and sing with all your might!!!

We serve a VERY big God and He is pretty dynamic himself!!! He INVENTED music and Phil Keaggy for that matter!!! I'm ABSOLUTLEY sure God LOVES it when His children play for him!!!

hotraman · March 21st, 2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonebender

I believe there is a time to blend and a time to really bend. If the time is right, I don't mind throwing in a tastefull solo but there is a time and a place for it. I'm really a believer of flowing with the spirit, I don't need to be up front showing how fast I can pick or solo. When I'm doing a youth gig, I'll solo alot because they love it and get into it but when we are doing worship songs I use my playing to bring everyone into the presence of God. I knew this one guy a few years ago I think I was 18 or 19 he came up to me after church and asked me if I could show him some of my licks and scales that I used. I was shocked because all I have ever played at that time was country and he was a Death Metal rocker but loved the way I was able to blend and add the the church music. This past year we had an older couple in their 80's join our church and their first time there we had a great service and I had some solo's with the OD going. After the service, the older fella made a beeline to me and I was thinking Oh oh now he's going to give me the third degree about my playing but the total opposite. He shook my hand with a huge smile and thanked me and encouraged me to keep it up. Every other sunday he'd do that.

Great to hear as well.
As a pastor of music who throws in a solo once in awhile, its done to compliment the music.
Having a sax player play on your worship team can be a blessing as well.
I think this all depends on your church's worship style.
A lot of the older generation grew up on rock and roll, and I think some enjoy the energy and passion that lead instruments offer ( guitars, fiddles, sax)
But everyone should play in a way that draws people to worship God.
Great thread.
steve

scooteraz · April 18th, 2007, 11:58 PM

So, what is the difference between a solo and and instrumental piece. Churches have all sorts of instrumental pieces. Very traditional churches with organ always have preudes and postludes that are purely instrumental. We also have a young violinist that plays specific pieces that are very worshipful. One day, I would like to play "Amazing Grace" 'ala Jeff Beck on the "Merry Axemas" album. My music director is not so sanguine...

If it serves to focus worship, it is in. If it is to show how talented a player you have in your church, it is out. Solos are in the grey area of are you really focusing worship; moving the song forward? We don't do "Pharoh, Pharoh" during survice so the cheesey "Louie Louie" solo is not an issue. However some songs have a short solo as a transition from one section to another. Our rendition of Michael W. Smith's "Come to the Cross" has a short simple solo about midway through that later is repirsed into more of a background lick status at the end (a slick??). Without it, the song sounds incomplete. We also do a song called "Now is the Time to Worship" that relies on a solo to transtion through a key change. Again, no solo (guitar, piano...something) the key change doesn't sound right, and the song is incomplete.
On the other hand, 12-36 bar blues breaks do seem out of place to me as part of the worship.

ibobunot · April 19th, 2007, 02:42 AM

Sister Rosetta says its ok

Where did you learn to sing and play guitar, and why do you play so loud?

I am what you call an autodidact. My musical ability was a gift from God. I also learned from my mother. I play loud because I want to express my happiness in the Lord!

Isn’t it strange to worship God with a guitar?

Not in my church. We like to worship Him with all the instruments. Gospel music should be noisy!

--Sister Rosetta Tharpe--

Buddaman · April 19th, 2007, 08:46 AM

I was raised in the church, my mother has been a choir director for 25 years, and I have served as a musical director and guitarist in several large churches. Regardless of what ANYONE says, all organized church services are performances.

Pause.....for all the righteous outrage to follow.....

done??? Ok...

Everyone has a worship "comfort zone" that is defined, largely, by the way the individual was brought up and what he or she was exposed to as a child. I am an audio professional working for a large sound contractor that has installed sound systems for THOUSANDS of churches of ALL denominations, all over North America. I AM qualified to write on this topic.

Organized church services ARE performances designed to place the congregation in the frame of mind to receive the message from the leader of the flock. The "Praise & Worship" movement of the last 20 or so years has a good intent, but, I can tell you without reservation, that I got to the point where I could manipulate the congregation (1000+) with my vocal or instrumental delivery at will. It actually caused me great spiritual pain, because the congregation was SO moved at times and would come to me after the service telling me how great it was and how "God was really speaking through me".

This is in NO way coming from a place of arrogance; I am neither the greatest vocalist or guitarist, but I am in tune, in time and a very passionate performer. The feelings of these people thinking that God was working through me, when I spent 30+ years searching ferverently for a real and honest relationship with Him to no avail, and could, on demand, cause them to revel in spiritual fervor just because I hit my instrument a little harder and with a little more conviction, caused me to choose to leave the church. I struggle with it every day, but I would rather live honestly by my convictions than put up a hypocritical front.

Church services are performances. ESPECIALLY mega churches....in most cases, they are timed to the SECOND just like live television programs. If that's the type of environment that helps you reach your spiritual place of reception and openness, then great. But ALL church services are performances.

Peace,

Buddaman

and...no I am NOT a Buddhist...I just play Budda amps...

popthree · April 19th, 2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddaman

, that I got to the point where I could manipulate the congregation (1000+) with my vocal or instrumental delivery at will. It actually caused me great spiritual pain, because the congregation was SO moved at times and would come to me after the service telling me how great it was and how "God was really speaking through me".

what makes you think it was YOU ?

electrablue · April 19th, 2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddaman

" . . . I got to the point where I could manipulate the congregation (1000+) with my vocal or instrumental delivery at will. It actually caused me great spiritual pain, because the congregation was SO moved at times and would come to me after the service telling me how great it was and how "God was really speaking through me".

This is in NO way coming from a place of arrogance; . . ."

Actually, it does come across pretty arrogant.

popthree · April 19th, 2007, 09:18 AM

sounds like it was most definately a performance

Buddaman · April 19th, 2007, 09:45 AM

I witnessed that phenomenon with many other singers and performers...as well as MANY (almost all) pastors...it's not just music...maybe being around it for so many years made me cynical...I definitely believe that everyone has the right to worship in whatever way they wish and whatever brings them closer to their version of God has validity I guess...

the reason I quit is that I was UNCOMFORTABLE with people coming to me (AND other members of the worship team and visiting musicians and pastors) and commenting on the playing or singing...I am a very self-deprecating and quiet individual by nature...anyway...I meant no offense to anyone...I was just relating my experiences and my search for a real and honest relationship with God...i guess this just proves that guitars are more fun to talk about than politics and religion...
Peace

popthree · April 19th, 2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddaman

the reason I quit is that I was UNCOMFORTABLE with people coming to me (AND other members of the worship team and visiting musicians and pastors) and commenting on the playing or singing...I am a very self-deprecating and quiet individual by nature...

i can understand, i think i'm like this too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddaman

anyway...I meant no offense to anyone...I was just relating my experiences and my search for a real and honest relationship with God...i guess this just proves that guitars are more fun to talk about than politics and religion...
Peace

agreed.

LesPaulGuy · April 19th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Thanks so much for the link to Sister Rosetta Tharpe - she is fantastic!! This is the first I had even heard of her. Quite a character and what a great player!! Sounds like she had an old, overdriven tweed Deluxe back there somewhere.

When I was growing up in Southern California in the '60's there was a robe-wearing TV preacher that playing this fantastic-looking '50's sunburst Strat through a tweed Fender amp, probably a Twin or a Bassman. His name escapes me now, but maybe someone else can chime in with it?

BoB/335 · April 19th, 2007, 07:57 PM

Hey Buddaman,

Thanks so much for that open and honest post. I feel I know exactly what you are talking about. I think most who have been in that situation would never admit something like that or ever even come to grips with it themselves. I also feel ( maybe a generalization) that the larger the church the more danger of the manipulating performance. I have been part of a very small church that I think I can honestly say was not performance oriented. But those kind of churches are far and few between. This goes along with my comments in some of the other threads. (Musicians being paid and dealing with beginner musicians) It's a shame that so much importance has been placed on things other than God Himself. People are worshipping the worship.

Buddaman · April 20th, 2007, 08:00 AM

a) Thank you for understanding the point I was trying, maybe unsuccessfully in writing, to convey. After re-reading what I wrote, I realize that maybe I DID come off like a cocky jerk, and I most definitely am not. I just worded my feelings in a less-than-perfect manner.

b) "Worshipping the worship" is the BEST three word description of what I have been struggling with most of my life. Thank you for that.

Thanks again and take care.

hotraman · April 20th, 2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddaman

a) Thank you for understanding the point I was trying, maybe unsuccessfully in writing, to convey. After re-reading what I wrote, I realize that maybe I DID come off like a cocky jerk, and I most definitely am not. I just worded my feelings in a less-than-perfect manner.

b) "Worshipping the worship" is the BEST three word description of what I have been struggling with most of my life. Thank you for that.

Thanks again and take care.

Buddaman;
I know where you are coming from.
It would be easy to accept the praises of man, in context of a worship service.
I've realized that there are people who mean well, when they offer compliments. But for me, I don't live or die by them.

Like all of us, we should be singing/playing to point people to Jesus.
Its sad that too much of a "performance" vibe finds its way into churches...
dazzling lights, fog machines, multiple camera angles, etc.
If all of that takes us away from Jesus, its not a good thing.
The Holy Spirit bears witness to those who lead worship with a self glorifying agenda.... these folks usually flame out.
Having said all that, solos.. whether instruments or vocal, need to be taken seriously. Done well, but understanding that its not the main thing.. Jesus is!
Does this make sense?

March 6th, 2007, 05:10 PM	#81 (permalink)
broadcaster Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Midwest Age: 50 Posts: 527 1 Photos	"I plan to fire up something like a 6-wide full Marshall stack in heaven when I get there... or something just as loud and equally able to broadcast my innermost pure love for my Messiah, my Chirst, my Jesus..." Now that is worship in Spirit and Truth with passion! __________________ The tone is in your fingers.

March 6th, 2007, 10:08 PM	#84 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,682 44 Photos	guitar face __________________ don't taze me bro !

March 9th, 2007, 12:33 AM	#85 (permalink)
teleman53 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 321	I love this thread __________________ When I look in my heart, there's just devils and dust

March 14th, 2007, 08:59 AM	#86 (permalink)
bigdaddyweed TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 38	Great topic. One I have thought about more than once. If (guitar) solos are evil because their are no words, then eveidently, silent prayer must be evil too. I want to think, that when a solo is going on, people who are truly listening to the word through the song, will reflect on what this song means to them, and how the meaning from the song can help them do God's will in their everyday life. But, as usual, the members of the congregation who want to be critics, pick this time during a solo to find fault with something, and these are the people I pray for most. pickin' and prayin'.................weedman __________________ I do not use or promote the use of illegal drugs, but I used to hang out with some people who did.......big daddy

March 14th, 2007, 03:01 PM	#87 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,682 44 Photos	guns dont kill, people do solos dont make evil, people do __________________ don't taze me bro !

March 6th, 2007, 09:52 PM	#82 (permalink)
GhostofJohnToad Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Age: 34 Posts: 710 7 Photos	I was playing guitar at a church where the music director got kind of weird about some things. She believed that certain musical tones and progressions were evil and should never be played. The whole dissonance thing was very bad. I had never heard that notion until then. She had a big thing about faces too. The other guitar player always made faces when he played and she would scold him all the time.

March 14th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#88 (permalink)
BoB/335 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Long Island Posts: 476	" I want to think, that when a solo is going on, people who are truly listening to the word through the song, will reflect on what this song means to them, and how the meaning from the song can help them do God's will in their everyday life." Do you REALLY think so? I doubt that I would be "reflecting" on the song during a solo. "I played at a church where minor chords were considered demonic------go figure,the ego and power of the mind.They had an ENTIRE cassette teaching series on this." Can I get a copy? __________________ BoB/335

March 14th, 2007, 08:15 PM	#89 (permalink)
refin Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 52 Posts: 1,913	Come see me live,I can be a maniac within reason.....in church,I would rather not solo. __________________ "For You,Lord,are good,and ready to forgive,and abundant in mercy to all those who call upon You." Ps. 86:5 http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/refin_music.htm MASTER VOLUME? WHAT'S A MASTER VOLUME?

March 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM	#90 (permalink)
Jackson Jackson Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: Portland, OR Age: 35 Posts: 338	I rarely play solos during worship, and almost never plan out where to place them or what to play if I do, however if I feel the Holy Spirit prompt me to "let go" musically and jus play, you betcha I'm going to! In the same way that some Sundays I speak more between or during songs, some days we read scripture during worship and sometimes we don't. Sometimes out sets our blazing and upbeat, sometimes more reflective. Let the Spirit lead and play and sing with all your might!!! We serve a VERY big God and He is pretty dynamic himself!!! He INVENTED music and Phil Keaggy for that matter!!! I'm ABSOLUTLEY sure God LOVES it when His children play for him!!! __________________ Travestine - my band myspace.com/jacksonBjackson trixiestudios.com

April 18th, 2007, 11:58 PM	#92 (permalink)
scooteraz Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 758	So, what is the difference between a solo and and instrumental piece. Churches have all sorts of instrumental pieces. Very traditional churches with organ always have preudes and postludes that are purely instrumental. We also have a young violinist that plays specific pieces that are very worshipful. One day, I would like to play "Amazing Grace" 'ala Jeff Beck on the "Merry Axemas" album. My music director is not so sanguine... If it serves to focus worship, it is in. If it is to show how talented a player you have in your church, it is out. Solos are in the grey area of are you really focusing worship; moving the song forward? We don't do "Pharoh, Pharoh" during survice so the cheesey "Louie Louie" solo is not an issue. However some songs have a short solo as a transition from one section to another. Our rendition of Michael W. Smith's "Come to the Cross" has a short simple solo about midway through that later is repirsed into more of a background lick status at the end (a slick??). Without it, the song sounds incomplete. We also do a song called "Now is the Time to Worship" that relies on a solo to transtion through a key change. Again, no solo (guitar, piano...something) the key change doesn't sound right, and the song is incomplete. On the other hand, 12-36 bar blues breaks do seem out of place to me as part of the worship.

April 19th, 2007, 02:42 AM	#93 (permalink)
ibobunot Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dullsville Posts: 3,456	Sister Rosetta says its ok Where did you learn to sing and play guitar, and why do you play so loud? I am what you call an autodidact. My musical ability was a gift from God. I also learned from my mother. I play loud because I want to express my happiness in the Lord! Isn’t it strange to worship God with a guitar? Not in my church. We like to worship Him with all the instruments. Gospel music should be noisy! --Sister Rosetta Tharpe--

April 19th, 2007, 08:46 AM	#94 (permalink)
Buddaman TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Oklahoma Age: 36 Posts: 81	Probably inflammatory, but I have to say.... I was raised in the church, my mother has been a choir director for 25 years, and I have served as a musical director and guitarist in several large churches. Regardless of what ANYONE says, all organized church services are performances. Pause.....for all the righteous outrage to follow..... done??? Ok... Everyone has a worship "comfort zone" that is defined, largely, by the way the individual was brought up and what he or she was exposed to as a child. I am an audio professional working for a large sound contractor that has installed sound systems for THOUSANDS of churches of ALL denominations, all over North America. I AM qualified to write on this topic. Organized church services ARE performances designed to place the congregation in the frame of mind to receive the message from the leader of the flock. The "Praise & Worship" movement of the last 20 or so years has a good intent, but, I can tell you without reservation, that I got to the point where I could manipulate the congregation (1000+) with my vocal or instrumental delivery at will. It actually caused me great spiritual pain, because the congregation was SO moved at times and would come to me after the service telling me how great it was and how "God was really speaking through me". This is in NO way coming from a place of arrogance; I am neither the greatest vocalist or guitarist, but I am in tune, in time and a very passionate performer. The feelings of these people thinking that God was working through me, when I spent 30+ years searching ferverently for a real and honest relationship with Him to no avail, and could, on demand, cause them to revel in spiritual fervor just because I hit my instrument a little harder and with a little more conviction, caused me to choose to leave the church. I struggle with it every day, but I would rather live honestly by my convictions than put up a hypocritical front. Church services are performances. ESPECIALLY mega churches....in most cases, they are timed to the SECOND just like live television programs. If that's the type of environment that helps you reach your spiritual place of reception and openness, then great. But ALL church services are performances. Peace, Buddaman and...no I am NOT a Buddhist...I just play Budda amps...

April 19th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#97 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,682 44 Photos	sounds like it was most definately a performance __________________ don't taze me bro !

April 19th, 2007, 09:45 AM	#98 (permalink)
Buddaman TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Oklahoma Age: 36 Posts: 81	arrogance... I witnessed that phenomenon with many other singers and performers...as well as MANY (almost all) pastors...it's not just music...maybe being around it for so many years made me cynical...I definitely believe that everyone has the right to worship in whatever way they wish and whatever brings them closer to their version of God has validity I guess... the reason I quit is that I was UNCOMFORTABLE with people coming to me (AND other members of the worship team and visiting musicians and pastors) and commenting on the playing or singing...I am a very self-deprecating and quiet individual by nature...anyway...I meant no offense to anyone...I was just relating my experiences and my search for a real and honest relationship with God...i guess this just proves that guitars are more fun to talk about than politics and religion... Peace

April 19th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#100 (permalink)
LesPaulGuy TDPRI Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, CA Age: 58 Posts: 86	Sister Rosetta Thanks so much for the link to Sister Rosetta Tharpe - she is fantastic!! This is the first I had even heard of her. Quite a character and what a great player!! Sounds like she had an old, overdriven tweed Deluxe back there somewhere. When I was growing up in Southern California in the '60's there was a robe-wearing TV preacher that playing this fantastic-looking '50's sunburst Strat through a tweed Fender amp, probably a Twin or a Bassman. His name escapes me now, but maybe someone else can chime in with it?

April 19th, 2007, 07:57 PM	#101 (permalink)
BoB/335 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Long Island Posts: 476	Hey Buddaman, Thanks so much for that open and honest post. I feel I know exactly what you are talking about. I think most who have been in that situation would never admit something like that or ever even come to grips with it themselves. I also feel ( maybe a generalization) that the larger the church the more danger of the manipulating performance. I have been part of a very small church that I think I can honestly say was not performance oriented. But those kind of churches are far and few between. This goes along with my comments in some of the other threads. (Musicians being paid and dealing with beginner musicians) It's a shame that so much importance has been placed on things other than God Himself. People are worshipping the worship. __________________ BoB/335

April 20th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#102 (permalink)
Buddaman TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Oklahoma Age: 36 Posts: 81	Thank you. a) Thank you for understanding the point I was trying, maybe unsuccessfully in writing, to convey. After re-reading what I wrote, I realize that maybe I DID come off like a cocky jerk, and I most definitely am not. I just worded my feelings in a less-than-perfect manner. b) "Worshipping the worship" is the BEST three word description of what I have been struggling with most of my life. Thank you for that. Thanks again and take care.