Well, It Didn't Take Long

[Dr. T]

Yesterday instead of playing my mando in fiddle in church I decided to take my Strat. I saw this as a possible solution to the nobody-can-hear-me problem. Please know that my heart was pure, I didn't (and don't) want to be center-stage, a "star" or anything. I also play acoustic guitar in church, and the pastor is a guitar player, too, so I didn't see the harm.

Well, I get there and the pastor is clearly uncomfortable that I have an electric guitar. My amp, BTW, is a little Randall 1x12 combo. He starts right in on me. "That thing," pointing to my amp, "has to be kept down low." "Sure," I responded, "I just thought to be in the mix, not overpowering anybody, just doing my thing." Then he tells me to turn the amp up to 10 so the sound guy can limit how loud I can be from the sound board (I had a mic in front of it). I said, "Oh, you don't want me to put this thing up to 10. It's 60w." So the pastor is still clearly stressing. I then offered to sit out the service. I didn't want to sit there as angry as I was, and my absence wouldn't leave a big hole in the band at all. No, no, he wants me to play. O.K., so we start to rehearse. Mid-song he stops, comes over to my amp, and turns down the channel and master volumes. Does anybody here need to be told how wild I was?

Boy, do I hate worship band drama. It's a shame because eveybody else on the team is easy to get along with, no egos, etc. As well as the pastor, but he just wigged about the Strat for some reason. I love and respect the man, he's a sweet guy and a truly anointed preacher, and I'd rather sit in the pew and go on loving and respecting him rather than being as angry and disappointed as I am right now.

Not really looking for advice, just venting to people who can probably empathize...

[tom grossheider]

Drama like that would be hard to deal with. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with those kind of issues. But when we are dealing with people in any type of ministry situation (unavoidable!) then we also have all the baggage to handle too. Hang in there and God will work it out for you.

[Telesaurus]

You're in a tough position. If I were in that situation, i might felel the same & handle it about the same, but....from an outside viewpoint....Even though the Pastor may be an annointed 'preacher' of The Word, his example is not real good. No matter how well he bring the message, there is a cloud over it, because of his actions. If you haven't discovered it yet, you will probably find, that his actions will always be present in your mind, regardless how great the message is that he brings forth. It will also continue to wear on your mind, so I really think it might be good, to think about privately speaking to the Pastor. He may not even realize how it affects you, how it comes across to others & how it is a detriment to his ministry. It could possibly bring a needed change to his leadership style.
[/i]

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by Telesaurus

You're in a tough position. If I were in that situation, i might felel the same & handle it about the same, but....from an outside viewpoint....Even though the Pastor may be an annointed 'preacher' of The Word, his example is not real good. No matter how well he bring the message, there is a cloud over it, because of his actions. If you haven't discovered it yet, you will probably find, that his actions will always be present in your mind, regardless how great the message is that he brings forth. It will also continue to wear on your mind, so I really think it might be good, to think about privately speaking to the Pastor...[/i]

True dat. In fact I emailed him last night precisely because I don't want this thing between us. Along with conveying to him how I felt about Sun. a.m. I'm going to put together a proposal of stuff we might do to improve our sound system problems, tighten up the musical end, and strengthen the team's unity. (How mature, huh?)

[Reno Sepulveda]

I feel music is someting that should bring joy. If it's not fun and is causing problems, I remove myself from the equation. I don't make my living playing music or ministering and have other musical outlets besides my church.

Maybe it's because I'm almost 50 now I have such a low B.S. tolerance. I just feel I owe it to my church and brothers and sisters and myself to talk plainly and honestly about problems. I have my regular prayer time and don't feel PA squabbles and such require extra sessions. I used to worry about people getting their feelings hurt but now I just trust the Holy Spirit that lives within them to take constructive criticism the right way.

Ask your minister this question. "Why am I playing here if nobody (including myself) can hear me?"

[TheViking]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

I love and respect the man, he's a sweet guy and a truly anointed preacher, and I'd rather sit in the pew and go on loving and respecting him rather than being as angry and disappointed as I am right now.

The pastor sounds like a fairly nice guy. I do not know what bit him about the guitar and your amp (and I certainly do not support that kind of behavior) but have you tried talking to him about it? Tell the guy exactly how you feel about what happened. We all make mistakes and it is hard to correct those mistakes if people don't point them out to you.
Maybe all he needs is a bit of “faith” when it comes to your abilities to “tame” that electric “beast” of yours. There still is no excuse for his behavior, but sometimes people need to see (or hear) to believe.
Sometimes pastors can be a bit “overprotective” about their congregations. Sadly enough musicians are targeted when it comes to this “protection”. It can be about styles, instruments, orchestrations or even how loud the band is. That doesn’t mean that a pastor is allowed to disrespect the musicians in any way.
If it had been any other context where this happened, I would have told you to get up and leave, but it is clear you love God, the congregation AND the pastor. So my advice is that you sit him down, tell him how you felt and explain that you rather want to step down than experience that thing ever again.

[Dr. T]

"The pastor sounds like a fairly nice guy. I do not know what bit him about the guitar and your amp (and I certainly do not support that kind of behavior) but have you tried talking to him about it? Tell the guy exactly how you feel about what happened. We all make mistakes and it is hard to correct those mistakes if people don't point them out to you. "

In fact I'm meeting with him Thurs., and I anticipate that he'll be receptive and we can resolve this thing fairly easily, because he is a Godly man (though, clearly, not less human than the rest of us). Thanks for your wise words!

[Coach]

I feel bad for you and it sounds like you are handling it in a good way, but thanks for your story because it makes me reflect on how good we have it at our church. There are mornings when our worship leader will actually tell me and the other electric player to turn up until the sound guys complain because we've got a really rocking set. There are also songs that he'll ask us to really lay back. The key is he trusts us to do that when asked and generally won't even ask because he knows that we listen to and feel the music and will adjust our playing accordingly. The only one who is ever an issue is our drummer because he doesn't listen to what everyone else is playing and get into the feel of the song. He just stepped down for a few month break this week so I'm playing drums now which is my main instrument anyway. Our 2 hour rehearsal time was cut in half last night because we didn't have to constantly stop to tell him what and how to play.
Our worship leader told us a few weeks ago that about 4 years ago (when the team was pretty basic - acoustic, piano and drums) that he started praying that God would send, in his words, "born again rockers". Now we have myself (guitar and drums) and another guitar player that have played in numberous bands and a bass player that spent 23 years on the road playing music up until the mid-90s.

[chicknpikr]

I have been in several tight spots with church disagreements..and here is my conclusion..people often put their own personal agenda above doing what God wants..that's sin..There has to be order and authority in a church don't get me wrong but..If everyone has the same
mindset in church ..pleasing God and loving each other little things would solve themselves.I have seen churches split up simply because of no communication about problems.
I hate to rant and rave but I have been DEEPLY hurt by 2 church splits..Will your problem with the pastor result in that no ..but my point is You keep your eyes on Jesus and his will for your life and little things like this will not seem so critical and You will have more peace NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ELSE DOES.Sorry for the loooong post

[LuthierTom]

Another option would be to use an amp or amp simulator (yeah, I know, it ain't the same, but...) which has both line out and headphone out. Send the line out to the board, and send the headphone out to an in-ear speaker which you wear (one ear only, not both). You can make your electric as loud as it needs to be in the in-ear speaker, and the sound tech totally controls your overall level in the house. I have done that a lot and it works quite well.

[GoldieLocks]

I have so much advise for you...that I'm not gonna give it. Every situation is different. Here's some tidbits...

1) don't talk music with people that don't know music.

Everyone thinks they're a music expert. Except music experts...who are too busy looking for more knowledge and experience from people above them.

2) Don't expect results playing with people who aren't musically inclined.

Have some fun but don't expect professional results from amateurs. Most worship leaders are not professionals. They don't live and breath music like us guitar players (ha ha).

3) Music is a breeding ground for evil pride.

don't know why I wrote that. But I'm always checking my pride-ometer when it comes to church music. Some church musicians feel this is their big chance to be a popstar. (Yawnnn!). Even the pastors I've met.

4) Church can be a sad music experience.

Honestly I've given up on GREAT worship music. I just do the best I can with whoever I'm given to play with. Some weeks are AMAZING, others (trainwreck). I lower my standards & pray that God will use our abilities. I Often don't think Jesus is as fussy as I am. Praying for people specifically does get incredible results.

5) Volume wars.

Put your amp in front of you, facing you. I hate this but it seems to solve the vol. issue. Get an amp stand so it tilts back slightly. Then mic your amp (if possible)...

"I will never play electric guitar in public without a tube amp, ever". But i do own a very loud COWBELL...

[Dr. T]

Put your amp in front of you, facing you. I hate this but it seems to solve the vol. issue. Get an amp stand so it tilts back slightly. Then mic your amp (if possible)...

Thank you, Goldie! This is, in fact, just what I've done, since I gave up on mando and fiddle and am now taking my Strat (I think the Tele would be a little intimidating ). I should add that I did meet with the pastor and he met me halfway on the issue, we got it resolved, and we're moving forward.

[Reno Sepulveda]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

Put your amp in front of you, facing you. I hate this but it seems to solve the vol. issue. Get an amp stand so it tilts back slightly. Then mic your amp (if possible)...

That seems to be the thing, get your amp acting as much like a personal guitar moniter as possible. I was in Bufallo Bros this past weekend and sawthisyou pop your open backe combo amp on it and it seals off your open back cabinet eliminating plus turns it into a pseudo folded hold thing-a-majig. And it gets your amp up off the floor!

[Dr. T]

A snazzy little unit, Reno; fortunately my little Randall is already closed-backed so that's not an issue. Sunday somebody told me they couldn't hear me and I should turn up

[mcStringer]

"I should add that I did meet with the pastor and he met me halfway on the issue..."

So what was halfway? Sorry, but it sounded from your story that your pastor owed you an apology for (1) acting like a butt, and (2) violating your personal space by jumping on your amp controls, etc.

Earlier, I said that speaking the truth will set you free. I still mean that, but I'm also somewhat more like Reno in that I'm also 50 and also have a very low BS tolerance anymore--especially from guys who don't practice what they preach. The church has far too may of those people in it and by far the majority I have experienced have been pastors or worship leaders. (I'm also a seminary grad and ordained minister) so I truly know of what I'm speaking. Did he apologize, or did he manage to make you feel guilty but forgave you (because he's so holy)? Just wonderin', cause that's so often how it works when a pastor blows it in front of his people.

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by mcStringer

"I should add that I did meet with the pastor and he met me halfway on the issue..."

So what was halfway? Sorry, but it sounded from your story that your pastor owed you an apology for (1) acting like a butt, and (2) violating your personal space by jumping on your amp controls, etc.

Earlier, I said that speaking the truth will set you free. I still mean that, but I'm also somewhat more like Reno in that I'm also 50 and also have a very low BS tolerance anymore--especially from guys who don't practice what they preach. The church has far too may of those people in it and by far the majority I have experienced have been pastors or worship leaders. (I'm also a seminary grad and ordained minister) so I truly know of what I'm speaking. Did he apologize, or did he manage to make you feel guilty but forgave you (because he's so holy)? Just wonderin', cause that's so often how it works when a pastor blows it in front of his people.

He didn't apologize, and he didn't make me feel guilty because he's so holy (I'm 52 and making me feel guilty is not as easy as it once may have been :) ); but he's a pretty down-to-earth guy and his attitude/demeanor was open/cooperative/problem-solving. - An apology would have been nice, and I kinda feel like I deserved one, but as a preacher once said, "We don't really want to start demanding what we 'deserve'". Brad is not a very tall man but generally controls his "little guy syndrome" pretty well, but an out-and-out apology might have been a littl beyond him.

Plus - in the flesh my initial impulse in these situations is always "F--- this, I'm outa here." God does not want me doing this. Once you start out on the quest for a church congregation full of perfect people it never ends. (I've seen it in my own family.) So I'm working on being content with "halfway". Besides, if I haven't been a "butt" yet I'm sure I will be at some point, and I'll appreciate a little slack.

[mcStringer]

Yeah, I guess that's about all any of us fallen creatures can expect. My gut feeling was that a sincere & contrite apology was in order (and it may still come) but when we don't get what we feel is deserved, that's when forgiveness has to take over. Glad, you're Ok with it now.

[chicknpikr]

Something I have learned about relationships and confrontations is that God never promised how other people..including preachers...would treat us or even that they would love us but He does expect us to love everyone no matter what...have I reached that point ? hardly..the only thing we have control over is what we do.Pray for your pastor..I was a close friend to my last pastor and some of us would not believe how tough a job and how much stress there really can be!

[endzone]

It's no one's job to make the Pastor feel guilty enough to apologize. The Holy Spirit is fully capable of that and if there was sin in the Pastor's action, you can bet he will be convicted of his sin. Dr. T, I commend you for the way you've handled the situation. Pray for your pastor, he is in a tough job.

[mcStringer]

[quote="endzone"]It's no one's job to make the Pastor feel guilty enough to apologize. The Holy Spirit is fully capable of that and if there was sin in the Pastor's action, you can bet he will be convicted of his sin...quote]

??? Where did that come from? Who even suggested it was anyone's job to make the pastor feel guilty ???