Too loud

[Fatknuckle]

Volume concerns seem to be a mixed bag. Some say it't too loud, some say turn it up (usually other guitarists). Many of our folks use multi-effects peddals that go into a direct box. You miss that real tube sound, though. It is usually a balancing act without a line out of some other voume control. Whatever the sound booth wants is what they get. Facing the amp back towards you (and the back wall) helps, as long as there's nobody behind you.

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Daddy Hojo

Nobody ever complains about horns though.

Same here. The horns are by far the loudest thing in the room, and everybody loves it.

But take away the horns and leave everything exactly the same and the "too loud" complaints immediately return.

For some reason our WL started an unplugged team that plays one Sunday a month. Maybe it's his answer to the "too loud" crowd.

A lot of this comes in on comment cards. We might get a card from parents saying it's too loud, while their high school or college kids sitting right next to them turn in cards saying turn it up. One parent said she didn't like the electric guitar that much, but now she does like it because she realized how much her kids like it, and they started bringing their friends to church to hear rockin worship music, etc...so she ended up saying don't turn it down!

I've learned to always start rehearsal by turning down so low that I know I cannot be heard. Then after the first song everybody says "turn it up, we cant hear you." Then I play and turn it up where they tell me to set it, even though I know it will not be heard next to the drums. Then the WL stops us in the middle of the second song and says "Wow! Your guitar is still not loud enough once the drums start playing, you need to turn it up again!"

Yeah, I know...... heh-heh! Works every time.

[rhoydotp]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

I've learned to always start rehearsal by turning down so low that I know I cannot be heard. Then after the first song everybody says "turn it up, we cant hear you." Then I play and turn it up where they tell me to set it, even though I know it will not be heard next to the drums. Then the WL stops us in the middle of the second song and says "Wow! Your guitar is still not loud enough once the drums start playing, you need to turn it up again!"

Yeah, I know...... heh-heh! Works every time.

i'm guilty of doing this after i realized that whatever I did before, I'm always "too loud" :)

[Nub]

Originally Posted by TeleMark85

It's more a problem with non musical knowitalls who think the worship is for them! It's not even that loud. I had an argument just before a service last week with the sound guy who thought he knew more about what we were doing than we do. He then insulted us by saying " it's not a pop concert you know" as if we don't take it seriously enough.

Maybe the sound guy has some good insight... the perspective from the sound booth can be pretty accurate. In your first post, you said that the guitar players are constantly being told to turn down... that indicates that there's a problem.

Btw, the worship team is there to SERVE the congregation, and it's so easy to forget that once we get on stage. The volume wars, and bickering between the musicians & the sound guys, are always counterproductive to ministry.

[Snowwizard]

SC59,

I don't know the exact reason why your WL started an unplugged group but variety is the spice of life

[TeleMark85]

Originally Posted by Nub

Maybe the sound guy has some good insight... the perspective from the sound booth can be pretty accurate. In your first post, you said that the guitar players are constantly being told to turn down... that indicates that there's a problem.

Btw, the worship team is there to SERVE the congregation, and it's so easy to forget that once we get on stage. The volume wars, and bickering between the musicians & the sound guys, are always counterproductive to ministry.

That's a fair point but I'm sure everyone here knows how frustrating it is when you've set everything up before the service and it's sounding great and then the sound guy comes in and changes everything and it ends up sounding awful!
We have one of the most talented p&w bands in our church and everyone involved has a real sensitivity when playing but if we can't hear what we're playing it becomes a real problem.

[GeetarPlayer]

As far as pleasing people.... those who think it is too loud will complain to you. Those who think it is too quiet just won't come back anymore.

[Samsen]

I think of it this way: those who complain at least care enough to do something about it! Those that don't care, won't say a thing and won't come. Which is better?

/runs

[Hktk]

My church had guitar volume issues and we ended up solving the problem by making some simple baffles. They were easy to make and quite cheap.



Sometimes I will just put the amp facing strait into the baffle you see near the wall and use a fold back to hear myself.

At the end of the day a few this will factor in when it comes to volume in church. You can really only turn down as far as the drummers volume in addition to this its best to find out detailed specifics about what the issue is. Get exact complaints and don't settle for its just too loud, when is it too loud? Does the 'too loudness' change in different parts of the room and is it specifically when the amp is on a particular part of the stage. Sometimes too loud is a more ignorant way of saying that the eq is not the best. If you are tearing peoples ear drums out with too much treble the amp volume may not be so much the problem as the eq settings.

I found repositioning where I stand on the stage made a massive difference in the volume that the congregate heard. We moved the drums to the left of the stage because all the oldies sat on the right side of the room.

Hope this helps.

[Jack FFR1846]

We have a dB meter back at the sound board at all times. The sound guy sets it up for 95dB. Someone thinks it's louder than usual, he picks up the meter and tells them that it's the same volume as it's been at every service for the last 10 years.

[Revman]

Try putting your amp facing a heavy curtain. Or use a moving blanket to cover your amp. I used the heavy curtain idea recently and it worked. Worked so well that sometimes it was hard to hear the guitar. Had to move closer to it. Not ideal but it will work.

Rick

[TeleMark85]

We use our amps as monitors so I think we'll have to make an amp stand that is a bit higher so we can keep the amp volume low but still hear what we're playing. I like the idea of using an attenuator. I like the sound the deluxe give just before it starts to break up. I think this is the only way to get that sound out of the amp.

[Nub]

Originally Posted by TeleMark85

That's a fair point but I'm sure everyone here knows how frustrating it is when you've set everything up before the service and it's sounding great and then the sound guy comes in and changes everything and it ends up sounding awful!
We have one of the most talented p&w bands in our church and everyone involved has a real sensitivity when playing but if we can't hear what we're playing it becomes a real problem.

Yup, it can be frustrating... but it's frustrating for the sound guy, too. Many musicians don't take into account that how things sound on the stage & how they sound in the mains are two different things; and if there's too much sound onstage from amps, the sound guy has no real control of the house mix. In most cases, the sound guy really does want the same thing as the band, for things to sound great, but everyone has to work together on it... and sometimes, it might even mean (horror of horrors!) asking the sound guy for his input on your setup, and ultimately, trying to make his job a little easier.

Btw, I went from playing in a large church with a huge stage to leading in a small church with a small stage, and none of my amps worked well in the smaller room. I tried the Weber Mini Mass (hated what it did to the amp's tone), moving blankets, putting the amps in another room, and a SF Champ... none of it worked well. I finally decided to try something totally different... I bought a Tech 21 Blonde pedal, dialed it in as my "amp" with my pedalboard plugged into it, and I run it straight to the board. It sounds great (even to other guitar players), and has eliminated about 90% of the sound issues we used to have. The fresh donuts I bring every Sunday morning for the guys in the sound booth takes care of the remaining 10%.

[TeleMark85]

I'd be one of the easiest people to work with in our church, I know everyone has a job to do and that it's not all about the band. None of us are unreasonable and always try to think about the other people involved in making the service work. There's one sound guy that never has any problems, he's great, but unfortunately he can't do every service. ( I've asked) ha. if he can make everything sound great then surely the others can too!

[Nub]

Has your director ever thought about having that guy supervise the other sound guys, and train them to do things right?

[Snowwizard]

the problem is that a lot of sounds guys say their are "volume problems" because they are basically trying to set up a recorded sound instead of a live sound. those are two different things

[andrewsadlon]

I've been told to turn down many a time, mostly by vocalists. I am one of the WL's and play lead and sing most of the time, so my amp's up front by the vocals... I have to angle it so they don't complain too much ;) Problem is I'm just a dumb teenager so a lot of the time I wonder if I was 50, would they still tell me to turn down... This is why I love playing for the youth, we can be as loud as we want! *thumbs-up*

[Snowwizard]

I was there once not too long ago, respect is earned over time.

[Samsen]

Quick update re: use of attenuators. I received the Minimass 25 this week and used it today running my amp at 15W. It worked really great! I didn't notice a huge tone difference. The mids and the highs were pretty much how they were without the attenuator, the bass was a bit softer, I guess. The difference was so negligible that I hardly noticed it playing live. The thing is I'm not running my amp dimed or anything like that so it worked really well. Using it to knock a few dBs off of what you're running is exactly where an attenuator excels or so I was told, it is true and I'm very happy with the results. If you want to run your amp dimed but want to get the volume to be a bit louder than bedroom levels, you're obviously gonna notice a big tone difference.

[Butch Snyder]

I wrote out this really long post about what I could actually say more succinctly. My initial post sounded more whiny and more about "me" also. So, after reading an rereading, here's my thought.....

I once attended a church where I was the lead guitarist in the praise band. We played every Sunday. I used my amp as a monitor and thought I flt in with the stage/monitor mix. In fact, I had to struggle to hear myself sometimes. I used to go around to different areas of the stage, while sound checking, to check the guitar level. It was OK (to my ears, I couldn't hear it very well). During the 1st worship service, while playing a song that required no overdrive, the worship leader, who plays piano/keys, turns around and "yells" you're waaaay too loud. I go back and hit the power switch on my amp and proceed to play air guitar. I asked him between services if my volume was better, he said, "much better, thanks...". Funny thing is that I had a guitar solo and I just air guitar-ed it. He was happy. The sound guys were frantically trying to bring my level up. After the last service, I let them know what was going on.