Anybody using Autotune live at worship?

[74 Deluxe]

Anybody using Antares Autotune live at worship? Seems to be a feature in some songs. I used to hate it but... I hear bands using it more as an effect, like reverb or chorus, and it's growing on me...
Helicon's stompbox version lets you use the input from a guitar or keyboard as the key to correct to, or you can just use the mic input and crank up the effect to use it more as an effect instead of what it was originally made for ... to fix vocals... As the lead singer ( no backup choir here) and rhythm guitarist, I pride myself on not needing the pitch correction, but as an effect it might be of some use...

[SoVeryTired]

As an effect, I could see it being interesting (although I think it's overused already). As a pitch correction device? The best method for correcting out of tune singers is removing the mic and escorting them from the stage.

[GeetarPlayer]

Our WL used it for prelude and postlude a couple weeks ago. It was a cool sound. He used the keyboard as a controller.

At our small group, that came up. One person said "Yeah - I didn't know what to think about this... because I know Cher used that for one of her songs." I know what he's saying.... there he was ready to worship, and he's thinking about Cher - and all that goes with her. And I guess that's what guitars with distortion went through at first... made people think about AC/DC, and all that goes with that. Now it's been used enough that that association no longer exists for most people.

[tjalla]

It has crossed my mind to use something like this on conjunction with IEMs - but as a self-corrective device ie feeding the tuned vocal to one ear and my live vocal to the other - so that I - and only I - hear the chorusing effect. I'd have my mic come out FOH unaltered, but I'd always have a reference point in my ears when singing sharp or flat, ie so when I don't hear chorusing, I know my pitch is bang on.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by tjalla

It has crossed my mind to use something like this on conjunction with IEMs - but as a self-corrective device ie feeding the tuned vocal to one ear and my live vocal to the other - so that I - and only I - hear the chorusing effect. I'd have my mic come out FOH unaltered, but I'd always have a reference point in my ears when singing sharp or flat, ie so when I don't hear chorusing, I know my pitch is bang on.

Interesting thought. I use an instrument as my reference point for vocal tuning and I guess this is no different. Might be quite weird to hear though!

[GeetarPlayer]

Originally Posted by tjalla

It has crossed my mind to use something like this on conjunction with IEMs - but as a self-corrective device ie feeding the tuned vocal to one ear and my live vocal to the other - so that I - and only I - hear the chorusing effect. I'd have my mic come out FOH unaltered, but I'd always have a reference point in my ears when singing sharp or flat, ie so when I don't hear chorusing, I know my pitch is bang on.

Interesting. Let us know how this goes when you try it out. I'd expect it not to work. You will always hear chorusing. No two pitches are going to match exactly, unless computer generated. That's why decades ago doubling the lead vocal was so popular. Why didn't they just make a copy of the track they already recorded? Because you would not get the chorusing effect that way. So, even when the lead vocalists sang exactly the same way (or so he thought) they ended up with a chorusing effect. You will never sing the exact same pitch as the auto-tuner.

And I would think this would be confusing for you to not really hear exactly what's coming out of your mouth. When I lead, and have another male vocalist who ends up frequently singing melody, I turn them way down in my IEMs. Otherwise, I get confused as to whether I should be correcting my pitch or not ("is that me or him who is slightly flat/sharp?").

Not poo-pooing it... I've been dragged kicking and screaming into using many tools that I ended up loving. Let us know!

[WireLine]

In many people's view (and my opinion is irrelevant here) if it's autotune, its not you singing the note - it's the machine (or the software) singing the note, and most people can hear AT when it kicks in and out.

If you (anyone) views pitch correction as an effect like echo, EQ, then that could justify it I suppose...it one views/used it as a means to cover a flaw of the actual performance, that could be seen as something else altogether.

Just food for thought

[tjalla]

SoVeryTired/GeetarPlayer - maybe I didn't explain myself well, but you miss my point somewhat. In fact I have already tried a very similar setup on someone else's rig and it does work. I played with a keyboardist who did this on his vocals, except he used wedges (not IEMs) and he sent his *tuned* vocals to FOH and wedges.

SoVeryTired - of course one has to reference another instrument to pitch, but you won't ever hear chorusing between your voice and another instrument even if they are playing exactly the same melody as what you are singing, since they are completely different timbres. Only a cloned signal of your exact voice occurring at that very moment - except tuned sharp or flat slightly, will give you audible chorus on your voice. It's kinda weird and unnerving to hear the first time. But I think to get used to it and strive to eliminate it as much as possible is a good 'on-the-job' training tool - much like a drummer who regularly plays services or gigs to a click track, would improve his time centre.

The concept works, because it is possible to satisfactorily pitch a note until the chorus is negligible ie your acoustically produced voice pitch is very close to the processed voice pitch
coming back at your through the wedge. I've tried it. However, I didn't like the prospect of the front row, and other singers onstage also hearing the chorusing when i did wander off pitch, if they were in earshot of acoustic voice as well the tuned wedge/FOH. It would be distracting for them, and quite indicting for me!

So but my take on it, if I were to pursue further, would be strictly with IEMs, and any digital pitch manipulation is for my ears only, to help me get back on track. Again, I'd send my raw unprocessed vocal to FOH, not the tuned version. The idea is much like how a drummer hears a click track in his cans/headphones for his reference, but not the congregation!

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by GeetarPlayer

And I would think this would be confusing for you to not really hear exactly what's coming out of your mouth. When I lead, and have another male vocalist who ends up frequently singing melody, I turn them way down in my IEMs. Otherwise, I get confused as to whether I should be correcting my pitch or not ("is that me or him who is slightly flat/sharp?").

Two things going on here:

1. I'm guessing that two different singers are rarely going to produce chorusing unless they have remarkably similar voices - and that assuming their timing and phrasing is bang on too (and how often does that happen ). But on long sustained phrases I could see how this may cause an issue. Good point.

2. Autotune aside, this is where IEMs are brilliant, if your desk will allow stereo panning. I'm often singing with two other males. I pan them each hard left and right, and my vocal straight down the middle. Similarly with the other elec gtr, gets panned hard left (he stands to my left), and my gtr down the middle. He hears his guitar centered and mine to his right. I can immediately tell what everyone in the band is doing with no second guessing as to who is doing what. We've been talking IEMs on other threads but I'd neglected to mention this massive benefit over wedges. Helps everyone really listen to one another, plus levels can be quieter, since their respective placements in the stereo field make them completely distinctive without needing as much volume. Like on a record!

[Jazzerstang]

hahahahaha!

[74 Deluxe]

You know I meant as an effect, right? Like the Bridge in "Way Beyond Myself" by the Newsboys... The cool think about the box I was looking at was you don't HAVE to use an instrument as a controller, but you can, and when you don't you can use it with the parameters cranked up for the over the top effect... When I scrape up some cash we'll see what we can do... Oh nice thing here, I do our mixing board too... No sound guy to play tag with...

[Jazzerstang]

I'm sorry, I just can't take it seriously. I don't mean to be a jerk. It just keeps reminding me of the whole natural sound vs. IEM/digital/PA stage volume control/stage monitors/guitars going straight into a mixing board/no control of tone or modulation crap-storm debate. Less is more in my opinion. Some effects are suitable and necessary, some will be laughed at 15 years from now. It's just not my cup of tea.

When I hear auto tune used as an effect, I think of this gal:

[74 Deluxe]

Well, current Christian Rock by the Newsboys... http://youtu.be/GwsykwR0CLM who are using it as an effect, not because they need to correct their pitch. Like I said in the OP, I used to hate the sound, and I get it, it's not "natural" sounding, but neither is tap tempo and distortion, but we still try to mimic the sounds of the bands we cover. (Personally, I'm burning out on the tap tempo dotted eights delay) As for it being just a fad... Do you realize how LONG ago Cher used autotune as an effect? I just googled it... 1998, yeah I don't think it'll last.... even though it's more prevalent now than it ever has been in the past 14 years...

[Jazzerstang]

Originally Posted by 74 Deluxe

Well, current Christian Rock by the Newsboys... http://youtu.be/GwsykwR0CLM who are using it as an effect, not because they need to correct their pitch. Like I said in the OP, I used to hate the sound, and I get it, it's not "natural" sounding, but neither is tap tempo and distortion, but we still try to mimic the sounds of the bands we cover. (Personally, I'm burning out on the tap tempo dotted eights delay) As for it being just a fad... Do you realize how LONG ago Cher used autotune as an effect? I just googled it... 1998, yeah I don't think it'll last.... even though it's more prevalent now than it ever has been in the past 14 years...

I only say "15 years from now" because TODAY when you turn on the FM radio to a station > 107, you hear autotune effect (pitch digitizing/dynamic shifting effect) used almost as stereotypically as the wahwah pedal (another dynamic tone shifter) in the 70s. Reverb, delay to an extent, and overdrive/distortion effects will never go away... they are like bread and butter and when they are used correctly, they are golden. that's just my opinion and I think any auto tuning is just really annoying. When Cher used it, it was new, but I just think that that particular song is kind of funny and the effect always reminds me of the song.

If I heard it live at church I would be distracted from laughing... No offense, just my personal taste.