Worship Pastor wants no amps on platform

[Snowwizard]

Originally Posted by GeetarPlayer

Why do worship pastors say "no amps on stage" when the real goal is stage volume? Shouldn't they say something like "nothing more than 80db hitting the front row"?

In the OP the issue was that they were going to In-Ears but never did. In other situations the issue may be competition. The lead guitar amp is turned up to compete with the keyboard amp who is competing with the rhythm guitar who is competing with the background vocals monitor, etc

[jb12string]

Originally Posted by still_fiddlin

You hit a hot button here. I feel for you. We've got IEMs, but the "technicians" running the board get my signal back to the Aviom too hot about 80% of the time, and I'm being charitable, so the sound of my guitar is like a 1960s transistor radio with a broken speaker. Might as well not have a monitor at all.

I've seriously thought about getting a Y-out of the monitor feed, taking that, and the signal from my POD into my own 2-channel mixer, and using that simply to give me a monitor mix that I can control. That's my next step, though I've started doing Sunday breakfast crew once every other month to get a break - I too am tempted sometimes to just do only that.

I really believe that IEMs can solve 99% of problems, but they come with their own set of technical learnings and challenges. Some people just will never figure it out, it seems.

Late to the party, but do you happen to know how they are feeding the Aviom system from the console? It shouldn't do that.

[scooteraz]

We just went silent stage at my home congregation. The problem for years was that the grand piano we had in the church just overwhelmed evereything, and we didn't really have a setup for silent stage. Our praise services outgrew the main sanctuary, and we had to move to our multipurpose gym.

I have to say that after a really steep learning curve, we seem to be doing OK with individual mixers (in our case, Hearback), and silent stage. PODs for the electrics, DI for the acoustic, Sansamp rack unit for the bass, and a keyboard in lieu of the grand. We've had electronic drums for a while. Singers still have a couple of floor wedges, but otherwise, it is a pretty silent stage.

Have to say we have killer speakers, with a huge subwoofer, that allows great lower bass and drum frequencies through, so the congregation seems to like the setup. I'm getting custom molded IEM, with quad drivers, and that should make my job on bass or guitar easier.

It doesn't have to be all bad, but the transition is indeed painful.

[Snowwizard]

Scooteraz,

Can I ask why? I get the piano over powering but in going silent you went digital drums and POD which both limit you and sound less than great. I just dont get it

[ATR1]

I have read several of your humble opinions. Now it seems that bug is starting to hit our stage. I join to help out a couple of years ago with a POD and head phones. I told the sound guy I needed a monitor wedge to hear my processed guitar tone. He told me to turn up my head phones he did not want more noise on the stage. I proceeded to get rid of my POD for a Mesa Boogie MARK V Combo. Slapped on some side fins like you see on Fenders to tilt back(Like monitor wedge). Needless to say he was not amused. I tucked my self deep in the corner right side of the drums. Tilted back facing me and the the back curtain. Worked like a charm.. I had the volume & FEEL of an amp. Everyone seem to forget amps have feeling too.. I came from a 4x12 1/2 stack. You feel the air move. WIRELINE you are 100% correct. Problem is I'm not being paid to play. If I was I would play my acoustic on a stool... Anyway now they want me out front with the singers Problem now.. They don't like my amp So WL said we need to get all the noise off the stage at some point. I told him I tried that I was not allow ed a monitor wedge so I spent $2,300. on a monitor for myself. There is also a 2nd guitar & bass player with amps. I don't think they are going to budge either. Sound s like if give up our amps we will never get them back. Wish us well!

[TelecasterSam]

A scissor stand you can set your amp on right at ear level beside you can work. Mic it or run direct from it(or a from a processor) to the board if the tone is acceptable that way. It isn't the best for you since it is so close, but will do in a pinch. It doesn't disturb the other members other than maybe the ones right beside you hearing out the back or front of the amp.

[TelecasterSam]

ATR1, sounds like a nice setup. They can adjust to you!

[GregWV]

I built a room off stage for my amp. It works great with an Aviom. Can't believe I just said that.....

We have little to no stage volume, and I think our FOH mix is as good as its ever been.


Attachment 149191

[GeetarPlayer]

Originally Posted by GregWV

I built a room off stage for my amp. It works great with an Aviom. Can't believe I just said that.....

We have little to no stage volume, and I think our FOH mix is as good as its ever been.


Attachment 149191

The Worship Pastor just built one for us also. I love it. I crank it up, and no one complains - on stage or off. And yes, it does sound awesome in the Avioms.

[soundchaser59]

Last week I finally tried an experiment. I put my speaker back stage (we have doors to close off the back stage area from the main sanctuary) and mic'd it. This left the stage volume completely manageable, I still get my amp sound cranked (but thru the monitors now) and the house sound is much better because the sound actually gets mixed for quality sound rather than mixing around the stage volume. It worked well, much better than I had expected. I do bring my own mic though, an E906.

The biggest advantage is I can use my "real" amp (the Mesa Mini Rec) instead of the power soaked Vox practice amp. So my tone is waaaayyyy better and gets cranked up a bit more than I could if the speaker were on stage! I modded the Vox (AD30VT-XL) by adding a Blue Dog speaker and a switching jack. If nothing is plugged in then the Vox amp uses the speaker. great grab-n-go for Tuesday rehearsal. If I plug in the Mesa then the Mesa uses the speaker and the Vox becomes just anouther extension speaker cab. But it also means I automatically have a backup amp in an emergency.

[mcfm2n]

I place my cranked amp (Blues Jr) off stage behind closed doors and mic it with an sm57. We have no budget for Avioms so we use Rolls boxes. I get one monitor feed to hear everything else and use a Y adapter to feed the mic signal to the board and another feed to the Rolls. Then I mix them in the box. It works really well.

[kbraker]

I'm going to start using my Orange MT in services. Headphone jack to a Di box to a splitter with a headphone out for me.

[mrbill205]

Brother you can try this,,I run our mix board ,and its very hard to please all,run your guitar through the mixer,and you may have to change you position on stage,but you can headphone off the mixer and hear everything,band,vocals chior,I hope this will help or at least give you some incentive to stay I know it is hard on you,but a bad day playing guitar beats a good day cuttn grass,ps you can in line any pedal here,and tweek the effects through the mix,give it a try,God Bless

[Jagg76]

My playing wouldn't be as good without an amp. Gotta have that tone that only and amp can give you.

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by Snowwizard

Scooteraz,

Can I ask why? I get the piano over powering but in going silent you went digital drums and POD which both limit you and sound less than great. I just dont get it

Well, if it is not too late a response...

We outgrew our sanctuary, and had to move to the .... You guessed it....gym. No longer is there a grand piano, and the out was we could better control the parishioner experience via the soundboard. And it works.

To be honest, I prefer playing through an amp. But I have to admit that the experience of having really good IEMs (I bought 1964 Ears), isn't so bad. Yeah, I still think a real amp sounds better to me, but it is about the congregation's experience, and they really can't tell. And a big part of me says that if I were as talented as says, Lincoln Brewster, I could make a POD sound really good. That is, the limit on my sound is not the POD, it is me.

[Snowwizard]

Lincoln Brewster plays a very limited style of music.:)

[GoldieLocks]

What next: are they going to start telling singers to sing quieter? Put plexi-glass infront of them?

Eventually they'll be telling the congregation to SHUT UP so that the P.A. system can mix the room properly and blend it all in to one glorious over processed mess.

Just get your heart right and make a FREAKIN' noise for God. Churches are getting pathetic. Some churches would be happy to just have a good musician or two.

I seriously want to start a punk rock church where people can be as loud and excited about Worshiping and preaching God as possible. Who's with me?

[still_fiddlin]

Ok, this thread started in MAY, maybe time to give it a rest.

But before I leave, I'm going to get something off my chest. I don't think the people who make these decisions (e.g., no amps on stage) do so because they are evil, or hate guitarists, or even misguided/stupid. I believe they do it because they feel the sound will be "better" as measured by whatever criteria they are working with. It could be congregational feedback, input from the pastor, or others who may have more control over their position (and paycheck) than the volunteer electric guitarist; or they could have some assumptions about sound quality based on what they saw at another church, a seminar, read online, who knows. Not saying they are right, but taking it as some kind of affront suggests you may be coming from the wrong place.

My point is, deal with it, and learn from it, or move on quietly if you can't. Don't disparage others who seem to make it work, and possibly make it work well. (I don't hear Lincoln Brewster making comments about people that use amps, for Pete's sake!)

I'll admit that for myself it's a continuing struggle, but the fact is I can now make it work, problems and all. Consequently, I'm a better guitarist, more versatile, and more able to contribute than if I packed up in a huff. I suspect that's been the plan all along, and not some scheme to keep me from soloing over the rest of the team.

I believe I'm done here.

[mrboson]

Lincoln Brewster may play through a POD or similar, but he's got it plugged into his amps. At least at the live shows I've seen him. That may be different than what he does as a WL in a church service setting. Either way, doesn't matter, he makes it work.

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by mrboson

Lincoln Brewster may play through a POD or similar, but he's got it plugged into his amps. At least at the live shows I've seen him. That may be different than what he does as a WL in a church service setting. Either way, doesn't matter, he makes it work.

At least a few years ago when he was using The POD XT Live, he said that the amp was for stage only, none of the amp sound was in the FOH signal.