Are we "too old" for the team?

[DADGAD]

This weekend, our WT pastor left for a conference in Colorado Springs and a younger one led the P&W. The conference is for mature leaders to address new church music leaders and to prepare them for the music ministry. According to my WT pastor, music directors aged 50 and older are the largest demographic within ministry that are becoming... unemployed.

Well, this subject led to some discussion within my group. Younger guys said that older players aren't in tune with the current generation. I am the eldest musician at 58.

I find myself wondering if it's time to move on. Then again, I'm always the one to get asked to play every major production. This because I'm the only guitarist that reads music. I'm the only one that can play any style like rock, folk, jazz, flamenco, gospel, funk, country, blues, chamber music, orchestras, etc.

When is it time to retire from music?

[sass35011]

"When is it time to retire from music?" In my opinion it is when I physically can not play anymore, or God calls me home. At 57 I am one of the oldest members of the WT, although our WT has members from 17 - 66 in age. Our Worship Music Director is 25, and values all of us and our contributions, we all volunteer our time and talents. Ours is a contemporary service and the congregation is a wide age range, from teens to those in their 90's.

[Arbiter]

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Younger guys said that older players aren't in tune with the current generation. I am the eldest musician at 58.

With all respect, that's crap. I learned more from the oldtimers I play with than anybody else. Not to say they're right all the time, can't make mistakes, or sometimes don't do stupid things, but they've been doing it longer than I have and they know things I won't. Still the case, and I've been playing most of my life.

Originally Posted by DADGAD

When is it time to retire from music?

Never. Les Paul was gigging weekly into his nineties. I frankly expect the Stones to keep going until they die. There's no reason to retire unless you physically can't play anymore.

[63dot]

Maybe those churches are too attached to an "image". They somehow want their musicians to be youthful, cool, well, basically with an age limit like American Idol. They have to ask themselves is this music for God or is it to ape pop music?

There have been some major changes in Christianity like a split with a Protestant Reformation, and divisions within those groups, even in music. One thing was a constant and that was a pretty traditional adherence to "high" music, or what some would call serious music. If one were to play music for God, regardless of denomination, it was understood that things like reading music and devotion to church music at the highest level (think Bach) was not only commonplace, it was the most accepted practice. I do remember when it was absolutely the norm that people on the music side of the service did read music and that classical music was the preferred form to worship in church. Sometimes somebody would pull out an acoustic guitar, but there was never the pressure to please the young crowd with trying to be a rock and roll band or complete with top 40 radio. It was all about time and place. But in the 1970s, or when I first started to see gospel break out into the mainstream, then the tradition of trained musicians playing classical music and organs was shattered. That acoustic guitar became electric when conservative Christians no longer thought the instrument to be evil or representative of the counter culture of the 1960s and "church" music evolved at an amazing rate. Historically, a 100 years from now, those days in the 1970s and 1980s when worship music went loud, electric, and resembled a rock concert will be noted. This is neither good nor bad, but a sign of the times. That long haired drummer behind a huge kit backing an electric guitarist with a big amp and rack of effects is as welcome in a megachurch as the old lady in a small chapel playing the Wurlitzer. In essence, it's all good unless the pressure of trying to be "cool", for lack of a better word, becomes the main focus.

It's appalling that anybody would want you, or somebody "older" in your church or any other, to retire. As long as you have the desire and ability to play, they should let you contribute. As you do read music, that's a plus that can have you contribute long after your playing days are over. Today I am going to put down lyrics for a friend's song and due to my CTS, I will sing but can't play guitar right now and though this injury/condition is as real as the NYY being a perennial threat in baseball, I am still only 48. Be very glad you don't have anything stopping you from playing and I hope your band also sees it that way. Like somebody said, Les Paul played into his 90s.

[rokdog49]

Ahhhh! the human condition rears it's ugly head.

[still_fiddlin]

If the church's intention is to use a contemporary music/service to attract a younger congregation (and, whether they admit it or not, that's probably true), then I'm pretty certain a younger looking band might seem like a good idea. One reason I left the start-up church was because I got tired of hearing the pastor say he wanted to see "more energy," which is pretty plain code-speak for "younger."

I know my days are numbered, and honestly, if there was a young buck who was even mildly interested in learning to read a chart and play what was needed, I've said to the WL I'm happy to move to a "mentoring" role and get that transition rolling. That person hasn't shown up yet, and chances are looking more like I may just retire myself before it happens, unless they decide to simply go out and hire someone. Not in my control, so I don't spend too much effort worrying or wondering about it.

[GeetarPlayer]

Don't ever retire. If you're asking when to leave the WT, do that when they ask you to (in plain English - not code-speak).

OP - you sound like you are very valuable to the WT, no matter your age.

[Revman]

For the Levites (those that prepped/led the sacrifices and worship for the Israelites) 50 years of age was the mark when they would no longer serve in that capacity. When reading the Bible, specifically, OT, I see why. To sacrifice the animals was physically demanding. In today's context, Worship leaders, are not called upon to sacrifice animals (thank the Lord). What it comes down to is the heart. Personally, I've been led in worship by 50+ leaders such as Lenny LeBlanc and younger ones like Lincoln Brewster. The key element and common bond was their love for God which flowed from their changed hearts. "Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks upon the heart"

[mrboson]

If churches are excluding musicians based on age, then there's a double standard at work.

TobyMac is 47. Lincoln Brewster is over 40. The Newsboys have been around forever and today have a single out that everyone is falling over themselves to cover in a P&W setting. I went to a Jake Hamilton concert last year and watched his lead guitarist play as he looked like he was literally just recruited out of 1970's Haight-Asbury. The so-called younger generation is not obsessed with our (older) age. Only my generation and older is. The younger generation likes good music, and authentic worship. I know some 50-60 year olds who are the best at providing that.

I'll be playing, singing until I can't hold a guitar any more or God calls me home. Whichever comes first.

[Parma_TeleMon]

As the oldest non-drummer in our worship community, I guess I have it pretty good. The young people who serve as "worship pastor by committee" are all well under 30. And they all want me to play on their teams. Not necessarily because I'm the best musician in metro Rock City (not by a looooooong shot), but I think some of it is because I've been at this for longer than they've been alive, and they appreciate the experience and musicianship that I bring to the table. If we think evangelistically, that Sunday is less for us than for the unchurched that wander in our door, then it makes sense to bless whatever will bless them.

IMHO, at every level of leadership and ministry we should be training up our replacements so there's no void when we're moved to the next thing we're called to in the Kingdom.

[frankthomson]

i feel ur pain, DADGAD

new churches like the slick electronica music

i just did an audition where i plugged into a pod that made my tele all swizzly-phasey-chorusy-delayee,
was handed a set of ear-buds, and got to audition w/ JUST the lead 30y.o. euro-looking singer rhythm guitarist.


the audition went, lets see......how do i put this?.....

[SamClemons]

At 50, and maybe bragging, a very good bass player, I still seem to be in demand, even with the young guys, but I can see a lot of churches only wanting young folks. Nothing new there. Always some who feel that only the young appeal to the young. That is a mistake.

[praisebass]

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Younger guys said that older players aren't in tune with the current generation.

When is it time to retire from music?

Playing in tune is very important. Fortunately, electronic tuners are inexpensive and widely available. Use one if necessary and keep rockin'.

[DADGAD]

LOL! But I want to use an analog tuner and they want me to go digital. It's gotta be tubes, too!

[TwangBilly]

Never retire! The older the better! If they are after entertainment the remark about older musicians not being in touch with the youth makes no sense, look at all the older artists in secular music with younger audiences. If they are after spirituality, there's no one better to look to than our elder's. And there is no such thing as "age" in the spirit. So if the worship is being spirit led, age does not hinder anything. Older musicians are more knowledgeable and accomplished. I play on a worship team with four musicians over 50, myself and one are under 30. It's the best worship I've ever had part in! And very spiritual, and it reaches the youth. All the ones from 2 to 20 are the life of our worship services. They are the ones dancing and praising God, while the older folks just stand there! Lol. KEEP PLAYING BROTHER!!! God gave you the gift, use it for Him as long and as much as you can!

[frankthomson]

Originally Posted by TwangBilly

Never retire! The older the better! If they are after entertainment the remark about older musicians not being in touch with the youth makes no sense, look at all the older artists in secular music with younger audiences. If they are after spirituality, there's no one better to look to than our elder's. And there is no such thing as "age" in the spirit. So if the worship is being spirit led, age does not hinder anything. Older musicians are more knowledgeable and accomplished. I play on a worship team with four musicians over 50, myself and one are under 30. It's the best worship I've ever had part in! And very spiritual, and it reaches the youth. All the ones from 2 to 20 are the life of our worship services. They are the ones dancing and praising God, while the older folks just stand there! Lol. KEEP PLAYING BROTHER!!! God gave you the gift, use it for Him as long and as much as you can!

Amen.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by still_fiddlin

If the church's intention is to use a contemporary music/service to attract a younger congregation (and, whether they admit it or not, that's probably true), then I'm pretty certain a younger looking band might seem like a good idea. One reason I left the start-up church was because I got tired of hearing the pastor say he wanted to see "more energy," which is pretty plain code-speak for "younger."

I know my days are numbered, and honestly, if there was a young buck who was even mildly interested in learning to read a chart and play what was needed, I've said to the WL I'm happy to move to a "mentoring" role and get that transition rolling. That person hasn't shown up yet, and chances are looking more like I may just retire myself before it happens, unless they decide to simply go out and hire someone. Not in my control, so I don't spend too much effort worrying or wondering about it.

I think we all are in the discipleship business, after all we are not promised to be able to play tomorrow but the church we drive on without us.

While the OP brought up discussions of younger musicians the original push was about music directors, the guys choosing the styles/genres of music played and perhaps the setlist. After being in place for a while as the church elder in charge of music there is a danger of becoming set in your ways. Thinking X is church music, if it was good enough for 1975 then that is how it should be in 2012, while thinking that this christian may be playing Y but it is still not proper church music even if he represents the future of the church. Now a new guy might bring in something us elder musicians would never play or listen to if it wasn't for the job, paid or volunteer, and that along with basic attrition because of age and death will cause the band the worship bands to tend towards younger members

[SoVeryTired]

I don't think age should be any barrier. It's about adaptability. If your church plays traditional music then there's no issue. If you aim for more contemporary music but the 60-year old worship leader is sticking with material and styles that were contemporary in the '70s then that becomes more of an issue. It's also about creating opportunities for younger guys to be part of the team - not at the expense of the older ones but alongside.

Our team ranges from 17 to 60-something. At 37, I'm very happy to keep on going as long as I'm called to - playing, being involved in the team leadership, developing my style, learning new material, helping younger or more inexperienced players and even playing with the youth band when they need me!

Stepping aside to make way for others shouldn't be an age thing, it should be an anointing thing. I led worship until recently, when I acknowledged that there were others in the team with a greater gifting for the role and what it requires. On that basis, irrespective of age, I'd happily step aside for someone else.

[ampmike]

Keep playing DADGAD,Im 51 and play every week and the other gutar player is a 57 yr old lady that is only paying a couple years.Everytime I think I should quite somebody tells me that day how much they liked the guitar in the songs.This thread really shows the feelings of many and we all agree you stay the coarse.You sound like an awesome player!!!Imagine if the world told Jeff Beck its time to pack it in not the best example but I believe that age and experience is the best teacher and a lot of younger people could learn so much from a guy like you.Its sad to see any church wanting to cop an image for attracting newcomers.I dont think that concept will be blessed.You keep playing and play "LOUD " brother Mikey

[Old_Skool_Noma]

I agree with everyone else, keep playing as long as you can, young'ins like me look up to older more experienced players like you and aspire to be able to have the diverse skill set you have.
I am one of 2 or 3 guitar players under 40 at my church, the other 2 are in middle school I believe. There are 3 or 4 other guitarists that are at least 40 and I wish I had the ability play like them. Also our church does a mixture of contemporary and traditional songs.