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Old March 29th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Zero stage volume - Amp Modeling??

Hey folks,
My church is moving towards zero stage volume and that means IEMs, which kind of defeats the purpose of using my tube amp on stage as my monitor. The question is, what to do? The tech pastor would really like to use amp modeling as a solution instead of iso boxes because even the iso boxes color the tone. I have a pedal board that I have put a lot of time and money into that I would like to still be able to use...so maybe I am looking for just an amp modeling option that would react to pedals the way a real amp would. Any ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? Solutions?

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Old March 29th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I use a Sansamp Liverpool pedal by Tech 21. It is analog amp modeling, and it fits right on my board with the rest of my pedals. I really like the tone, and while it isn't quite as responsive as a real tube amp (I don't know if any modeler would be), it is quite responsive and interacts really nicely with my dirt pedals.

Depending on the amp you are used to, the Tech 21 Character series have a number of different models.

Good luck on your search.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I use a POD XT..... LOVE it! I use pedals in front of it

I use mod of a double reverb through a 4-12 greenback cab. Sounds and reacts just like my amps.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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This at the end of your chain will replace an amp.



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Old March 29th, 2012, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Especially on IEMs, a modeling solution is a pretty easy transition. I started with some of my own pedals running into a POD HD500, but pretty quickly found that I could get everything I needed with the built in effects. The flexibility to integrate you existing board is there, though.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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acoustic guitar? singers? orchestral string like violin or cello? Sax or other horn? I don't buy into "zero stage volume" mystique. IEM is fine, and depending on venue, necessary, but not allowing any amps in favor of a holy grail of 0 stage volume is over-rated.

That said, I have a Joyo american sound (like a tech21 blond, fender amp sim) that I like.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We have a guy who uses a modeller and depends entirely on the monitor mix. What I don't understand is if his modeller has hundreds of various guitar sounds in it, why does he use the same sound for everything? He has a screaming lead sound that is great for semi-metal stuff with tons of gain, delay, flanger, and reverb, but.......the next song needs a clean smooth warm rhythm guitar and he uses the same sound to play the rhythm part?

I suppose in some cases it's a good thing that he has 0 stage volume.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Could you put your amp in another room? Our guitar player has started putting his amp in another room or closet at gigs where that is practical. If not, sometimes off stage pointed backwards. I don't really care what he does because I moved to IEMs about a year ago so I hear what I want.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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acoustic guitar? singers? orchestral string like violin or cello? Sax or other horn? I don't buy into "zero stage volume" mystique.
I don't either.

You either have instruments or not.

If the band can't play at a sane volume, that's another issue entirely.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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^^^ Well the OP didn't say he did either. Sounds like an edict from above. I'm glad that hasn't happened to me yet. But in case it does I read these threads to learn something.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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We've been close for quite a while. Viola, violin, acoustic guitar....yah....they make some sound as does the choir when they're on state. I've used in ear monitors from day one and a small pedal. I think I'm going to go from the digitech to maybe a Line 6 Live XT as I am never quite happy with the sound I'm getting.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I used to use a POD XT Live when we were forced to use amp modelers. It was OK, definitelh bettter than the multi-effects pedals from 15 years ago, but I prefer the pedal board that I have been acquiring and fiddling with over the years. We finally talked our sound guys into iso boxes, but if we're ever forced back to modeling I plan on getting a cheap Joyo amp modeling pedal and sticking it on my existing pedal board, rather than using another multi-effects/amp modeling processor. I was doing more tweaking throughout the week than I was practicing with that thing.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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if we're ever forced back to modeling I plan on getting a cheap Joyo amp modeling pedal and sticking it on my existing pedal board, rather than using another multi-effects/amp modeling processor.
snag one before the price goes up brother! (or sister!) :)
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Old March 29th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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snag one before the price goes up brother! (or sister!) :)
I have been sitting on the fence about that for that very reason..........you may have just pushed me over the edge!
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Old March 30th, 2012, 02:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have been sitting on the fence about that for that very reason..........you may have just pushed me over the edge!
even when we want something, sometimes we, in our human-ness, need a nudge to take the leap. You're welcome. :)

sometimes we, in our human-ness, need restraint to live in moderation. I have one joyo modeler and I want the other 3! :D AND I want joyo to do pedals for Hiwatt and Orange.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Could you put your amp in another room? Our guitar player has started putting his amp in another room or closet at gigs where that is practical. If not, sometimes off stage pointed backwards. I don't really care what he does because I moved to IEMs about a year ago so I hear what I want.
We have the guitar amp mic'd up in a room behind the stage, with the wires running via a connection box at the back of the stage through a hole in the wall. One guitarist prefers to use his multi-fx pedal, which I don't think gives as good a sound. I've considered amp modelling in the past but prefer the amp.

Either way, the sound is in ears rather than on-stage. We don't have a zero-volume stage because there are acoustic instruments on it - drums, acoustic guitar and vocals - but the PA team have much better control over the house and monitor mix when not battling with guitar, bass and keyboard amps. In our particular setting that is - yours may be different!
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Old March 31st, 2012, 12:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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volume?

To me zero stage volume means ZERO rock music. Yet churches keep toying with being modern and hip...but without the realness of the situation.
If I can't have an amp on stage -= then I'll just play acoustic guitar.

What next? Maybe churches will just record all their musicians on Wednesday night so people won't have to deal with looking at musicians or the time it takes for them to get on stage.

Good luck. Remember when churches were filled with huge expensive Organs that shook the entire building. Those were the days.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 12:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have an 'Award Matchbox' which is great. It's a guitar DI box with a speaker simulator (modelled on a celelstion G12) and a simple 'valvetone' EQ knob (treble cut like an old AC-30). It has a wide sensitivity range on the input so you can find the sweet spot that works with your pedals. Being a DI box, the output is XLR so you get a long cable run with no noise issues. It's also designed to run on anything from 9 to 30Vdc.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 01:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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To me zero stage volume means ZERO rock music. Yet churches keep toying with being modern and hip...but without the realness of the situation.
If I can't have an amp on stage -= then I'll just play acoustic guitar.

What next? Maybe churches will just record all their musicians on Wednesday night so people won't have to deal with looking at musicians or the time it takes for them to get on stage.

Good luck. Remember when churches were filled with huge expensive Organs that shook the entire building. Those were the days.
AMEN. But I won't "just play acoustic," I won't play.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 03:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GoldieLocks View Post
To me zero stage volume means ZERO rock music. Yet churches keep toying with being modern and hip...but without the realness of the situation.
If I can't have an amp on stage -= then I'll just play acoustic guitar.

What next? Maybe churches will just record all their musicians on Wednesday night so people won't have to deal with looking at musicians or the time it takes for them to get on stage.

Good luck. Remember when churches were filled with huge expensive Organs that shook the entire building. Those were the days.
I have admittedly struggled myself with this, and I keep coming back to why I am doing this in the first place, which means I am willing to do my second, third, or even last preference when it comes to style, tones, instrument, whatever.

But I am with you that my preference is the feeling of real, live rock worship music. I like to feel the stage vibrating from the bass and the kick drum. I like the feeling of being surrounded by sound, not just some representation forced through headphones or in-ears. I like feedback between my guitar and my amp. Oh well... my church is not a zero volume stage, but it is headed that way. We are right now at the point of more stage volume being controlled by the desk, meaning smaller amps miked and bass DI-ed. When we are zero volume I will still be there giving my whole heart to it, using my IEMs and modeling amp.
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